Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AE8DF3800009A; Sun, 10 Feb 2013 07:50:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1U4WLX-0005lm-Gx for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:49:27 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1U4WLW-0005ld-VH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:49:26 +0000 Received: from smtpout1.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.29] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1U4WLU-0006HU-Jk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:49:25 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.26.28.231]) by mwinf5d06 with ME id ycp01k00F4zApc203cp0Vm; Sun, 10 Feb 2013 13:49:03 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <5116977F.50108@npton.plus.com> <51169844.60906@psk31.plus.com> <511699B8.4000208@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <51169C65.2060800@psk31.plus.com> <5116A1E6.5040806@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <5116A6CF.3040609@psk31.plus.com> <17CDB7B27CCF4FFC8EBE21149BDE815D@PcMinto> <5116D582.9010004@psk31.plus.com> <5116E32F.7040505@psk31.plus.com> <7E4DF9667E4F42858785B7252AD1AD55@AGB> <51176F71.5050508@psk31.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <51176F71.5050508@psk31.plus.com> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:49:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. 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Content preview: Remember that well , turned out it was the wrong kind of Opera , comic in those days , and now is Singspiel : ) From: "g3zjo" Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:59 AM To: Subject: LF: Opera and WSPR Test [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.29 listed in list.dnswl.org] X-Scan-Signature: 5f3d51ad98dd7d967f54e1b86b99caac Subject: Re: LF: Opera and WSPR Test Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb511797ae71a3 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Remember that well , turned out it was the wrong kind of Opera , comic in those days , and now is Singspiel : ) -------------------------------------------------- From: "g3zjo" Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:59 AM To: Subject: LF: Opera and WSPR Test > Hi G > > Yeh, ere, get off my thread.:-) > > On 10/02/2013 00:59, Graham wrote: >> Ed.. >> >> Longer TX periods gave more time for propagation or QRM to give zero >> results, >> >> We have times of 2,4,8,16 , dropped 16 as that was ott , most >> made TA to usa with 2 , but 4 gave another -3 dB ... 8 ? well >> may be , dose seem to work over distance >> > It's my personal findings only, but on MF using low power, I remember my > tests with Albert and the step back in amazement, when OP4 was being > lauded as equivalent to WSPR2 due to the duty cycle difference. WSPR2 did > and OP4 didn't and took twice the time to let you know, give that to an > impatient git and which wins.? >> WSPR does it better quicker. >> >> Is that wspr 15 ? > I haven't got round to coding WSPR 15 yet. > > 73 Eddie >> G.. >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "g3zjo" >> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 12:00 AM >> To: >> Subject: Re: LF: Re: WSPR Test >> >>> Hi Minto >>> >>> Transmit only, Opera is very simple, I think the PIC code of your >>> message is still available from the software GUI menu, the timing is >>> merely bits / message time. Yes I just sat and coded it without writng >>> down any protocol, its easier than WSPR. >>> The main thing that annoys me with OPERA on MF is the long TX periods. >>> Longer TX periods gave more time for propagation or QRM to give zero >>> results, I feel WSPR does it better quicker. >>> >>> Same here on final builds but the present nest needs to be less quick >>> flash, bang, vapour resistant.:-) >>> >>> Eddie >>> >>> On 09/02/2013 23:37, Minto Witteveen wrote: >>>> Hi Eddy, >>>> >>>> Where did you get the description of the OPERA protocol? And did you >>>> write the encoding yourself? >>>> >>>> I found a protocol description of Opera on Andy’s (G4JNT) website, but >>>> it is reverse-engineered, and I seem to remember him complaining about >>>> undocumented (and unannounced) protocol changes.. So I am not sure how >>>> up to date his description is. >>>> >>>> I understand that Opera is quite efficient, so I am still somewhat >>>> interested… but not in just simply generating Opera timings with an >>>> obfuscated and secret external program and then parsing this through my >>>> PIC/AD9850 TX. Where is the fun in that? >>>> >>>> As for a final build.. there is no such thing here @pa3bca… As soon as >>>> it’s finished (i.e. I cannot think of additional things or software to >>>> add) it will probably start gathering dust somewhere. Or (more likely) >>>> I will attach a key(er) and use it for CW. Beaconing for beaconing’s >>>> sake is not for me. >>>> >>>> 73’s and please keep us posted on results. >>>> Minto pa3bca >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse >>>> -----Original Message----- From: g3zjo >>>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 00:02 >>>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>>> Subject: Re: LF: Re: WSPR Test >>>> >>>> Hi Minto >>>> >>>> Nice one. >>>> >>>> There is a 4066 on my Modulator / Mixer board too, unused here, I can >>>> reconfigure and plug in the Key. I am not sure of any ultimate >>>> configurations for a final build, it is still at the experimental >>>> stage. >>>> I have a CW / OPERA QRSS Module too, I have coded and tested OPERA it >>>> is OK but I can't get to love it. >>>> >>>> 73 Eddie G3ZJO >>>> >>>> On 09/02/2013 22:22, Minto Witteveen wrote: >>>>> I too have built a standalone 472 100 Watt TX with a PIC (and an >>>>> AD9850). The software I have written so far now handles CW, QRSS, DFCW >>>>> and WSPR-2 and WSPR-15 (thanks to Andy who wrote up a nice >>>>> description of the WSPR protocol). >>>>> Even with a simple ‘air cooled’ 10 MHz crystal (40 MHz with 4x PLL) >>>>> running the PIC timekeeping is quite good, and it seems good enough to >>>>> have the PIC running for more than a day and still getting WSPR >>>>> decodes. If I run it from a 12.8 TXCO it will be even better. >>>>> I now sync the TX (for WSPR) by getting the PIC out of reset exactly >>>>> on an even minute…. >>>>> >>>>> I am not sure if I am going to implement Opera. There is too much >>>>> obscurity here for my liking. Apart from the difficulty of getting a >>>>> good and complete description of the protocol it’s the secrecy itself >>>>> that has no place in radio amateurism (at least that is how I think >>>>> about the issue). >>>>> >>>>> As for being a despicable appliance operator: notice the 4066? Here I >>>>> can attach a key.. >>>>> >>>>> The PIC board will disappear. Possibly I will add a PIC to the DDS >>>>> board (will have to reposition the 7805 for it to fit). Either that or >>>>> I will add a small board with the PIC and connectors for the LCD >>>>> display, the RS232 for a terminal and possibly a rotary encoder. >>>>> Add a 24V 150 Watt Meanwell switching PSU and it’s a neat little >>>>> self-contained package. >>>>> >>>>> See attachments for a photo of the current setup and a quicly drawn >>>>> schematic >>>>> >>>>> 73's Minto pa3bca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: g3zjo >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 20:43 >>>>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>>>> Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: WSPR Test >>>>> >>>>> Yes I know it is always nice to see home brew, even from despicable >>>>> appliance operators.:-) >>>>> >>>>> Some recycling of some of my 500KHz rock bound modules. >>>>> >>>>> Eddie >>>>> >>>>> On 09/02/2013 19:22, Stefan Schäfer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Am 09.02.2013 19:58, schrieb g3zjo: >>>>>>> No time reference just very accurate PIC timing which is good for >>>>>>> weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ah yes. BTW when using e.g. a netbook in /p WSPR tests it is totally >>>>>> sufficient to sync the PC clock manually to your wrist watch (which >>>>>> was synced at home), if necessary. So it is not really a pro-argument >>>>>> for Opera that no timing is required. I've recently tested that at >>>>>> home with my own transmissions... >>>>>> >>>>>>> PA, yes tiny by your standards, but it is the PA that has been >>>>>>> growing recently. >>>>>> :-) >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pictures please! >>>>>>> Oh dear do you really like rats nests? >>>>>> ...and dirty fingers, yes ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> 73, Stefan >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Eddie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >