Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id x0H1oXZ7006336 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 02:50:44 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1gjwkI-0003pR-AZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 01:45:26 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1gjwkA-0003pI-DQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 01:45:18 +0000 Received: from resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net ([2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gjwk7-0004sz-4m for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 01:45:17 +0000 Received: from resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.104]) by resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id jwgkgWcu65AkPjwk2g6HOs; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 01:45:10 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=comcast.net Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1547689510; bh=aHb6SYTVGhZwJC0gWBLciVLVOnRK8sHpK4Wd/WhQw2k=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=knK5Qqw0VRN6a9Bpmuf7SgHGOuaxXKVuAP2cj/t//ROrgbHquudwGQJHzO+hr5UVo Txt9woNPlcnmchVS3T5NWWSIvh7/qgmsL0hpYMp9IpBKO2TLx2PBXi5H9/NCCv29zr z0oYvXpti2aFMRU1O6a10aEe7n5u88te83IjzK5z+WptE+mqbiOsFsnOORSIkccaUf h4NnrjRKd239QO1VWHuUb3uJMaP/J//akeg3i8y8dTofKrq3Ddbi7jOJxfc0sntHiM CBi+XnDHD4jK8snYWZtzcJFqldQEFQTrqcgcoEEJGbexM/ShO7EYFZ4XFujfCPAeCw Kwz7TgjUuvsyg== Received: from DELL4 ([73.4.253.141]) by resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id jwjzg5Dpr0Pxnjwjzge9vU; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 01:45:10 +0000 X-Xfinity-VAAS: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtledrgeeigdefkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucevohhmtggrshhtqdftvghsihdpqfgfvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefkhffvfhfuffggtgfrigfoqfesrgdtjeepuddtjeenucfhrhhomhepoehjrhhushhgrhhovhgvsegtohhmtggrshhtrdhnvghtqeenucfkphepjeefrdegrddvheefrddugedunecurfgrrhgrmhephhgvlhhopeffgffnnfegpdhinhgvthepjeefrdegrddvheefrddugedupdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhruhhsghhrohhvvgestghomhgtrghsthdrnhgvthdprhgtphhtthhopehrshhgsggplhhfpghgrhhouhhpsegslhgrtghkshhhvggvphdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0;st=legit Message-ID: From: To: References: <1UTCJiL0hf.H4SMB57smR5@optiplex980-pc> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 20:45:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5512 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Markus, Stefan Yes ... of course the bandwidth can be changed. In today's case, the receiver / SpecLab was set up at noon based only on Stefan's information. Unfortunately I won't make it back home until late tonigh [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:44 listed in] [list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (jrusgrove[at]comcast.net) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: c0fda1b13e6b41daa7385d57b8a64a8d Subject: Re: LF: Re: EbNaut tonite Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01A3_01D4ADDC.5D4D1490" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.1 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_60_70, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01A3_01D4ADDC.5D4D1490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Markus, Stefan Yes ... of course the bandwidth can be changed. In today's case, the = receiver / SpecLab was set up at noon based only on Stefan's = information. Unfortunately I won't make it back home until late tonight = ... at which time it will either be too late ... or I'll be too tired to = make the changes ;~) .=20 Jay W1VD =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: Markus Vester Reply-To: To: Sent: 1/16/2019 5:49:10 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: EbNaut tonite -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Hi Jay, if you want you can increase your observation bandwidth by using a = 4x smaller decimation factor, compensated by 4x larger FFT size to = maintain the same bin width and duration. Of course you'll also need to = increase the number of exported FFT bins by the same factor, producing = 4x larger files. Also the FFT center should be lowered by 5 Hz to the = middle of the three frequencies. Best 73, Markus =20 -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- Von: jrusgrove An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Mi, 16. Jan. 2019 23:29 Betreff: Re: LF: Re: EbNaut tonite Riccardo, Domenico Deja vu ... seems like we've been here before ... The receiver / SpecLab was set up earlier in the day to receive = Stefan's transmissions on 137.545. Unfortunately, both of your announced = frequencies are outside the passband in the current setup ... which is = approximately +/- 3 Hz. In the future it would be best if you could stay = within 3 Hz. Think Marcus advocated for 1 Hz separation in the past.=20 Will be happy to look for your EbNaut signals another night. Jay W1VD ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Riccardo Zoli=20 To: LF Group=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 3:52 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: EbNaut tonite Hi LF & EbNauters. Ok, Stefan and Domenico: I'll join you with the same transmission = coding and parameters on 137.535 kHz (message repeated hourly, 1st on = 2100z, last on 0700z). Reports are welcome. All the best 73 de Riccardo IW4DXW Il giorno Mer 16 Gen 2019, 21:03 Domenico IZ7SLZ = ha scritto: LF, I will transmit a 4 character message with EbNaut on 137.540 = kHz, sym=3D8s, code=3D4K19A, CRC=3D16. Transmissions will start on 2019-01-16 22.00 UTC with a duration = of 30' 56''; then repeated every hour. Last transmission on 2019-01-17 = 06:00. TX setup in use: Paul N. Program 'EbSynth' steered with 10 kHz = from GPS, analog SSB exciter with reference oscillator steered by the = same GPS, 'gpds' and 'chrony' programs for controlling the UTC time of = the computer. Antenna current =3D 1.5 A, antenna type rev-L 8+8 meters. Reports are welcome. 73, Domenico IZ7SLZ / JN80nu On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 15:57, Domenico IZ7SLZ = wrote: Hello Stefan and LF, results of decoding for your EbNaut signal in JN80nu are at = https://qsl.net/iz7slz/EBNAUT/DECODED.TXT Attached to this email there is a folder with the plots of the = eight periods. First two transmissions seems to be affected by fading. I want to join your EbNaut session tonight with some = transmissions from my side. I will announce the parameters as soon the = setup is ready. 73, Domenico IZ7SLZ On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 14:20, DK7FC = wrote: Hello Rob and Jay,=20 Many thanks for the reports and all the details. Jay, did = you miss the 22 UTC transmission or did it not decode? Interesting to see the phase plots. It is expected that the = phase is less stable when the band opens. In the last transmission, the = Eb/N0 is not high enough to see the phase pattern. I wonder if the traces become more evident if 4K19 is used. What happens when a solar event happens during the = transmission time? Does it change the phase or just the D layer = attenuation? Maybe we can repeat the experiment, using 4K19A. Of course a = carrier could be used too, but i like to 'play' with EbNaut. So, tonite: f =3D 137.545 kHz Start time: 16.JAN.2019 22:00:00.3 UTC Symbol period: 8 s Characters: 4 CRC bits: 16 Coding 4K19A Antenna current: 4 A Duration: 30:56 [mm:ss] 73, Stefan Am 16.01.2019 12:29, schrieb Rob Renoud:=20 Stefan, Late start but 7 successful decodes. Have not gotten to = phase plots yet... UTC Rank C Eb/N0 Eb/N0 MSG Ref Phase=20 0100 0 5.6 1.6 2019 0,-30,0 30=20 0200 0 6.9 0.4 2019 60,30 30 0=20 0300 0 9.9 5.8 2019 90,60,60,0=20 0400 0 11.2 8.8 2019 180,180,150,150=20 0500 0 6.3 2.7 2019 0,-30,-30,-60=20 73, Rob =E2=80=93 K3RWR From: DK7FC=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2019 9:33 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: EbNaut tonite LF,=20 Today, the messages will be transmitted as announced, = starting 22 UTC 73, Stefan Am 14.01.2019 22:16, schrieb DK7FC:=20 PS: Repeatinh hourly, until including 6 UTC. Am 14.01.2019 22:13, schrieb DK7FC:=20 Hi LF,=20 Just a short EbNaut message tonite. I'm interested to = see the phase changes on a long path. Markus's showrawsyms does a good = job there, as long as 8K19A is used. A shorter message should also help = to build up a clear trace. So let's try an unusual short message: f =3D 137.545 kHz Start time: 14.JAN.2019 22:00:00.3 UTC Symbol period: 4 s Characters: 4 CRC bits: 16 Coding 8K19A Antenna current: 4 A Duration: 30:56 [mm:ss] Reports, including phase plots, welcome :-) 73, Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_01A3_01D4ADDC.5D4D1490 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Markus, Stefan
 
Yes ... of course the bandwidth can be changed. In today's = case, the=20 receiver / SpecLab was set up at noon based only on Stefan's=20 information. Unfortunately I won't make it back home until = late=20 tonight ... at which time it will either be too late ... or I'll be too = tired to=20 make the changes ;~) . 
 
Jay W1VD
 
       
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com>
Reply-To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= >
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= >
Sent: 1/16/2019 5:49:10 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: EbNaut tonite
Hi Jay,

if you want you can increase your = observation=20 bandwidth by using a 4x smaller decimation factor, compensated  = by 4x larger FFT size to maintain the same bin = width and=20 duration. Of course you'll also need to increase the number of = exported FFT=20 bins by the same factor, producing 4x larger files. Also the = FFT center=20 should be lowered by 5 Hz to the middle of the three=20 frequencies.

Best 73,
Markus
   

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche = Mitteilung-----Von: jrusgrove <jrusgrove@comcast.net>
An:=20 rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt:=20 Mi, 16. Jan. 2019 23:29
Betreff: Re: LF: Re: EbNaut = tonite
Riccardo, Domenico
 
Deja vu ... seems like we've been here before = ...
 
The receiver / SpecLab was set up earlier in the = day to=20 receive Stefan's transmissions on = 137.545. Unfortunately, both of=20 your announced frequencies are outside the passband in the = current=20 setup ... which is approximately +/- 3 Hz. In the future it would be = best if=20 you could stay within 3 Hz. Think Marcus advocated for 1 = Hz=20 separation in the past. 
 
Will be happy to look for your EbNaut signals another=20 night.
 
Jay W1VD
----- Original Message -----
From: Riccardo Zoli =
To: LF Group =
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 = 3:52 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: EbNaut = tonite


Hi LF & EbNauters.

Ok, Stefan and Domenico: I'll join you with the = same=20 transmission coding and parameters on 137.535=20 kHz (message repeated hourly, 1st on 2100z, last on = 0700z).

Reports are welcome.

All the best


73 de Riccardo IW4DXW



Il giorno Mer 16 Gen 2019, 21:03 = Domenico IZ7SLZ=20 <iz7slz.domenico@gmail.com>=20 ha scritto:
LF,

I will transmit a 4 = character message=20 with EbNaut on 137.540 kHz, sym=3D8s,=20 code=3D4K19A, CRC=3D16.
Transmissions will start on 2019-01-16 22.00 = UTC with a=20 duration of 30' 56''; then repeated every hour. Last = transmission on=20 2019-01-17 06:00.

TX setup in use: Paul N. Program 'EbSynth' = steered with=20 10 kHz from GPS, analog SSB exciter with reference oscillator = steered by=20 the same GPS, 'gpds' and 'chrony' programs for controlling the = UTC time=20 of the computer.
Antenna current =3D 1.5 A, antenna type rev-L = 8+8=20 meters.

Reports are welcome.

73, Domenico IZ7SLZ / JN80nu







On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 15:57, Domenico = IZ7SLZ <iz7slz.domenico@gmail.com>=20 wrote:
Hello Stefan and LF,

Attached to this email there is a folder with = the plots=20 of the eight periods. First two transmissions seems to be = affected by=20 fading.

I want to join your EbNaut session tonight = with some=20 transmissions from my side. I will announce the parameters as = soon the=20 setup is ready.

73, Domenico IZ7SLZ



On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 14:20, DK7FC = <selberdenken@posteo.de> = wrote:
Hello Rob and Jay,
Many thanks for the reports and all = the=20 details. Jay, did you miss the 22 UTC transmission or did it = not=20 decode?
Interesting to see the = phase plots.=20 It is expected that the phase is less stable when the band = opens. In=20 the last transmission, the Eb/N0 is not high enough to see = the phase=20 pattern.
I wonder if the traces = become more=20 evident if 4K19 is used.

What happens when a solar event happens during = the=20 transmission time? Does it change the phase or just the D = layer=20 attenuation?
Maybe we can repeat = the=20 experiment, using 4K19A. Of course a carrier could be used = too, but=20 i like to 'play' with EbNaut.

So, tonite:

f =3D 137.545 kHz
Start=20 time: 16.JAN.2019  22:00:00.3 UTC
Symbol period: 8 s
Characters:=20 4
CRC bits: = 16Coding 4K19A
Antenna=20 current: 4 A
Duration: 30:56 = [mm:ss]

 73, Stefan

Am = 16.01.2019 12:29,=20 schrieb Rob Renoud:=20
Stefan,
 
Late start but 7 successful = decodes.  Have not=20 gotten to phase plots yet...
 
UTC Rank C=20 Eb/N0 Eb/N0 MSG Ref=20 Phase0100 0 5.6 1.6 2019 0,-30,0=20 300200 0 6.9 0.4 2019 60,30 30=20 00300 0 9.9 5.8 2019 90,60,60,00400 0 11.2 8.8 2019 180,180,150,1500500 0 6.3 2.7 2019 0,-30,-30,-60
 
73,
Rob =E2=80=93 = K3RWR
 
 
From: DK7FC
Sent: Tuesday, January = 15, 2019=20 9:33 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: = EbNaut=20 tonite
 
LF,

Today, the messages will be transmitted as = announced,=20 starting 22 UTC

73, Stefan

Am 14.01.2019 22:16, schrieb DK7FC:=20
PS: Repeatinh = hourly, until=20 including 6 UTC.

Am 14.01.2019 22:13, schrieb DK7FC:=20
Hi LF,

Just a short = EbNaut message=20 tonite. I'm interested to see the phase changes on a = long=20 path. Markus's showrawsyms does a good job there, as = long as=20 8K19A is used. A shorter message should also help to = build up=20 a clear trace.
So let's = try an unusual=20 short message:

f =3D 137.545 kHz
Start time: 14.JAN.2019  22:00:00.3 = UTCSymbol period: 4 s
Characters: 4
CRC bits: 16
Coding 8K19AAntenna current: 4 A
Duration: 30:56 [mm:ss]

Reports, = including phase=20 plots, welcome :-)

73, Stefan

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