Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-de01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 79B6938000085; Sun, 4 Dec 2011 20:15:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1RXN8H-00081N-6B for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 01:14:13 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1RXN8G-00081E-5N for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 01:14:12 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f43.google.com ([209.85.210.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1RXN8D-0006K3-BU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 01:14:12 +0000 Received: by dadz13 with SMTP id z13so5989050dad.16 for ; Sun, 04 Dec 2011 17:14:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=aJFhZR6kdp/a0Z7JjUmMiG5aEuB7LE0IJIYSEo2kNVk=; b=dvUh1B9rzFHYFiBD8pXJA99RwEhT79efqRS/HMYObAjwLqYrawEJNzwWg820269W8G VFwpDxL/GlpXXblbj1sLSVd2TUaqviicqfkp0f4AeFDck5lEB6KDpcRFcdWSFGjaEAKB l6uysb/DVY5PogRkOPth6YdIULju9O8h2qsyw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.34.67 with SMTP id x3mr18787586pbi.100.1323047642655; Sun, 04 Dec 2011 17:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.49.230 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Dec 2011 17:14:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4EDC1126.5070704@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <4EDC0AE0.7050207@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4EDC0DB5.2040703@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4EDC1126.5070704@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 20:14:02 -0500 Message-ID: From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: XGJ in TF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec520f42bc2ea3504b34e0858 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:479385376:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 1 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d022.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40c94edc1b294121 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --bcaec520f42bc2ea3504b34e0858 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan, I just re-read your post, I gather you are asking about Litz wire as a loop conductor? My friend Bill Ashlock tried using ex-Decca Litz wire as a loop and found that it was too fragile, individual strands broke and the wire became more lossy than conventional wire. I am considering using large diameter aluminum wire, the conductivity is of course not quite as good as copper but the skin depth is greater so that the net result is that Al is 33% more lossy than copper at LF frequencies but Al is only about 25% of the weight as Cu (also Al is about 25% of the cost of copper) so for the same weight of wire Al should be superior. --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer > ** > Warren, > > Ah, two in parallel, i thought in series. Tnx info. > So now you have 3 dB less radiated power due to twice the losses? Or did > you compensate that by 3 dB QRO ;-) > > Is the loop sourrounded by trees or why didi you decide to prefer a loop > as the TX antenna? Which cable did you use and have you ever tried RF lit= z > wire, e.g. the Decca type which i use now for my coil? > Sounds all interesting and a nice proof that it is a working alternative. > > Did you series compensate / resonate the loop and is it errected by a > large ferrite xfmr with one or two secondary turns? > > 73, Stefan > > Am 05.12.2011 01:23, schrieb Warren Ziegler: > > Hi Stefan, > > Thank you! > My loop used to be two parallel turns of coax, one of the coax cables > opened up recently so now it is a single turn loop approx 24m vertical by > 44 meters horizontal. > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > > 2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> Hi Warren, >> >> Even 4X, that's very remarkable! You are the one with the 2 turn TX loop= , >> right? >> >> Good luck and i hope i will see something too. >> >> 73, Stefan/DK7FC >> >> Am 05.12.2011 01:12, schrieb Warren Ziegler: >> >> Hi Stefan, >> Thank you! >> Roman RW3ADB reported XGJ last night on the TF3HZ, 4X1RF, and F1AFJ >> grabbers at the same time, >> >> -- >> 73 Warren K2ORS >> WD2XGJ >> WD2XSH/23 >> WE2XEB/2 >> WE2XGR/1 >> >> >> >> 2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >>> LF, >>> >>> I can see very clear traces of XGJ tonite at TF3HZ, >>> http://simnet.is/halldorgudmunds/TF3HZ_LFgrabber/ >>> Is it the first time? At least i found no capture on the capture >>> archive... >>> >>> 73, GL, Stefan/DK7FC >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > > --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 --bcaec520f42bc2ea3504b34e0858 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan,
=A0 =A0 I just re-read your post, I gather you are asking about= Litz wire as a loop conductor?
My friend Bill Ashlock tried using ex-De= cca Litz wire as a loop and found that it was too fragile, individual stran= ds broke and the wire became more lossy than conventional wire.
I am considering using large diameter aluminum wire, the conductivity = is of course not quite as good as copper but the skin depth is greater so t= hat the net result is that Al is 33% more lossy than copper at LF frequenci= es but Al is only about 25% of the weight as Cu (also Al is about 25% of th= e cost of copper) so for the same weight of wire Al should be superior.


--=A0
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/= 2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1

=A0

2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4f= er <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
=20
Warren,

Ah, two in parallel, i thought in series. Tnx info.
So now you have 3 dB less radiated power due to twice the losses? Or did you compensate that by 3 dB QRO ;-)

Is the loop sourrounded by trees or why didi you decide to prefer a loop as the TX antenna? Which cable did you use and have you ever tried RF litz wire, e.g. the Decca type which i use now for my coil?
Sounds all interesting and a nice proof that it is a working alternative.

Did you series compensate / resonate the loop and is it errected by a large ferrite xfmr with one or two secondary turns?

73, Stefan

Am 05.12.2011 01:23, schrieb Warren Ziegler:
Hi Stefan,

=A0 =A0Thank you!
My loop used to be two parallel turns of coax, one of the coax cables opened up recently so now it is a single turn loop approx 24m vertical by 44 meters horizontal.

--=A0
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1

=A0

2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer &= lt;Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
Hi Warren,

Even 4X, that's very remarkable! You are the one with the 2 turn TX loop, right?

Good luck and i hope i will see something too.

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 05.12.2011 01:12, schrieb Warren Ziegler:
Hi Stefan,
=A0 =A0Thank you!
Roman RW3ADB reported XGJ last night =A0on the TF3HZ, 4X1RF, and F1AFJ grabbers at the same time,

--=A0
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1

=A0

2011/12/4 Stefan Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
LF,

I can see very clear traces of XGJ tonite at TF3HZ, http://simnet.is/h= alldorgudmunds/TF3HZ_LFgrabber/
Is it the first time? At least i found no capture on the capture archive...

73, GL, Stefan/DK7FC







--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1

=A0



--
73 Warren K2= ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1

=A0
--bcaec520f42bc2ea3504b34e0858--