Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 93295380000CC; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 16:46:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Qtn08-0002OS-Rq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:46:12 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Qtn08-0002OJ-68 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:46:12 +0100 Received: from mail-ew0-f43.google.com ([209.85.215.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Qtn06-0005A7-0G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:46:12 +0100 Received: by ewy20 with SMTP id 20so829590ewy.16 for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 13:46:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:mime-version :content-type:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:importance:x-mailer :x-mimeole; bh=8TQhNCTszpEJyoAPIvXxyUqGcFTjRvW/+xEw6c6HLa4=; b=eVRCBTmLEujYz26qDxz/cSqhhQ7U+a8AmOUsCIRROFmGRWyshbB/RqEfQIuz646m82 rh5rhx5xmdupZ37VsdueQj67oePsvDGQlhUxGsQXFhRnq4ug7LBYkPT+IbVVAvahTCI+ 2FePJN9JgsUTo2hOtWpGEee8TUjGgJh6Ta85M= Received: by 10.14.145.141 with SMTP id p13mr545604eej.24.1313613963647; Wed, 17 Aug 2011 13:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PcMinto (h50208.upc-h.chello.nl [62.194.50.208]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c10sm736808eeb.33.2011.08.17.13.46.02 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 17 Aug 2011 13:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: From: Minto Witteveen To: References: <68BE37BD69E54DEE89CEBA8E30E9B94E@PcMinto> <4E47FFE9.10100@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <3ED8E5422F1F45DBB8186E9D9870AD63@PcMinto> <4E480E02.9020706@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <938BF599006244949F6CDDB5BA91F347@PcMinto> <4E482FBD.7030402@freenet.de> <7F63C990AB12460D9E0A1FC11C87385D@PcMinto> <009b01cc5c46$4880d2d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <979EEABD8AA94A8390304E44CC78A46E@PcMinto> <4E4C26EC.8030100@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> In-Reply-To: <4E4C26EC.8030100@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:45:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3538.513 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3538.513 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: 137 grabbers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BC_01CC5D2F.6D079000" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:483311680:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d297.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60574e4c28bd0322 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01CC5D2F.6D079000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, =20 First: congratulations with your ferrite success. Very interesting, I = have already dug up some ferrite bars here =E2=80=A6 I moved up the frequency range of my grabber. 73=E2=80=99s Minto pa3bca -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse From: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 22:39 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: 137 grabbers Minto,=20 I have a suggestion too: You could move the upper range to display up to = 137.785 kHz, just to display the TA spectrum as well. Then you would = have displayed PA0A yesterday in the evening who was transmitting at = 137.777 kHz. Below 137.68 there isn't really something going on, usually. 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 17.08.2011 21:27, schrieb Minto Witteveen:=20 Mal, Please enlighten me, what would you like to have changed? I already have Speclab at QRSS3.... 73=E2=80=99s Minto pa3bca = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 20:57 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: Re: 137 grabbers Minto Good grabber but can u set it for QRS3=20 TNX=20 de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Minto Witteveen=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:33 PM Subject: LF: Re: 137 grabbers Hi Wolf, Stefan, LF Interesting=E2=80=A6 might be worth a try. It is easy to set up, I = already have the SA612 employed in my 137 KHz receiver.=20 So=E2=80=A6 just a ferrite bar, varco, buffered and amplified using = a J310, into my current lowpass filter?.. And then (if and when weather = permits, it has been raining here for more than two months) out into the = field with a fishing pole, miniwhip, ferrite bar, ft817,laptop, etc etc. = I was planning to do that anyway to see what the S/N is there, as a = comparison with my QTH. 73=E2=80=99s Minto pa3bca = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse From: wolf_dl4yhf=20 Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 22:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137 grabbers Ferrite RX antennas.. been there when 136 kHz started.=20 Not as good as a larger air-core loop, possibly noise caused by the = Barkhausen effect or similar effects, nonlinearities, etc. Also beware the ferrite is a semiconductor so you will need some = E-field screening, otherwise the ferrite material will couple noise into = the windings. But it's not as bad as this may sound; actually I used a = ferrite antenna for reception for some years until I discovered I had to = disconnect the ...errr... RF counterpoise from the main antenna from the = mains "ground", and only use an earthstake during receive, at DF0WD. On the other hand, it's compact, relatively light-weight, and (in a = resonant configuration) gives a nice preselector. I remember when I connected a ferrite antenna to a tiny receiver = with SA612 "gilbert cell mixer", the first signal I heard was G3KEV = calling cq in CW. Q5 in SSB bandwidth.=20 Such a receiver is extremely handy to go /p for reception, and = compare different sites. 73, Wolf DL4YHF. Am 14.08.2011 21:43, schrieb Minto Witteveen:=20 I haven=E2=80=99t thought about ferrite RX antenna for = LF=E2=80=A6.My guess is that it is not going to work =E2=80=93 not = without an external antenna coupled to the ferrite, and then = what=E2=80=99s the point? DCF77 clocks often have trouble locking indoors or in the = neighborhood of =E2=80=98QRM=E2=80=99 generators like PC=E2=80=99s, and = look what power DCF77 is using=E2=80=A6 I could be entirely wrong of course=E2=80=A6 73=E2=80=99 Minto pa3bca From: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer=20 Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 20:03 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137 grabbers BTW what do you think about a ferrite RX antenna for LF? Now i'm = opening an older discussion i expect ;-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01CC5D2F.6D079000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stefan,
 

First: congratulations with your ferrite success. Very = interesting,=20 I have already dug up some ferrite bars here =E2=80=A6
I moved up the = frequency range=20 of my grabber.

73=E2=80=99s Minto = pa3bca

 
-------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
Ceterum=20 censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
 
From: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer =
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 22:39
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: 137 grabbers
 
Minto,=20

I have a suggestion too: You could move the upper range to = display up to=20 137.785 kHz, just to display the TA spectrum as well. Then you would = have=20 displayed PA0A yesterday in the evening who was transmitting at 137.777=20 kHz.

Below 137.68 there isn't really something going on,=20 usually.

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 17.08.2011 21:27, schrieb = Minto=20 Witteveen:=20
Mal,
Please enlighten me, what would you like to have changed?
I = already=20 have Speclab at QRSS3....
 
73=E2=80=99s Minto pa3bca
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
Ceterum=20 censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
 
From: mal = hamilton=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 20:57
Subject: LF: Re: Re: 137 grabbers
 
Minto
Good grabber but can u set it for QRS3 =
TNX
de mal/g3kev
 
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 Minto Witteveen To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent:=20 Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:33 PM Subject:=20 LF: Re: 137 grabbers
 

Hi Wolf, Stefan, LF

Interesting=E2=80=A6 might be worth a try. It is easy = to set up, I=20 already have the SA612 employed in my 137 KHz receiver. =
So=E2=80=A6 just a=20 ferrite bar, varco, buffered and amplified using a J310, into my = current=20 lowpass filter?..  And then (if and when weather = permits,=20 it has been raining here for more than two months) out into the = field with a=20 fishing pole, miniwhip, ferrite bar, ft817,laptop, etc etc. I was = planning=20 to do that anyway to see what the S/N is there, as a comparison with = my=20 QTH.

73=E2=80=99s Minto = pa3bca

 
-------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
Ceterum=20 censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
 
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 22:27
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137 grabbers
 
Ferrite=20 RX antennas.. been there when 136 kHz started.
Not as good as a = larger=20 air-core loop, possibly noise caused by the Barkhausen effect or = similar=20 effects, nonlinearities, etc.
Also beware the ferrite is a = semiconductor=20 so you will need some E-field screening, otherwise the ferrite = material will=20 couple noise into the windings. But it's not as bad as this may = sound;=20 actually I used a ferrite antenna for reception for some years until = I=20 discovered I had to disconnect the ...errr... RF counterpoise from = the main=20 antenna from the mains "ground", and only use an earthstake during = receive,=20 at DF0WD.

On the other hand, it's compact, relatively = light-weight,=20 and (in a resonant configuration) gives a nice preselector.
I = remember=20 when I connected a ferrite antenna to a tiny receiver with SA612 = "gilbert=20 cell mixer", the first signal I heard was G3KEV calling cq in = CW.  Q5=20 in SSB bandwidth.
Such a receiver is extremely handy to go /p = for=20 reception, and compare different sites.

73,
   = Wolf=20 DL4YHF.


Am 14.08.2011 21:43, schrieb Minto Witteveen:=20

I haven=E2=80=99t thought about ferrite RX antenna = for LF=E2=80=A6.My guess=20 is that it is not going to work =E2=80=93 not without an external = antenna coupled=20 to the ferrite, and then what=E2=80=99s the point?
DCF77 clocks = often have=20 trouble locking indoors or in the neighborhood of = =E2=80=98QRM=E2=80=99 generators like=20 PC=E2=80=99s, and look what power DCF77 is using=E2=80=A6
I = could be entirely wrong of=20 course=E2=80=A6

73=E2=80=99 Minto = pa3bca

 
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 20:03
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137 grabbers
 
<snip>
BTW what do you think about a = ferrite=20 RX antenna for LF? Now i'm opening an older discussion i expect=20 ;-)

73, Stefan/DK7FC



<= /DIV>
= ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01CC5D2F.6D079000--