Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 566AD38000088; Thu, 5 Jul 2012 19:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Smvjg-0003Zh-LO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 00:45:24 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Smvjg-0003ZY-5z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 00:45:24 +0100 Received: from nm25-vm5.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([212.82.109.206]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Smvje-0000py-4k for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 00:45:23 +0100 Received: from [77.238.189.56] by nm25.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2012 23:45:21 -0000 Received: from [212.82.108.224] by tm9.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2012 23:45:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1001.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2012 23:45:21 -0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=btopenworld.com Result=Signature OK X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 214846.3395.bm@omp1001.bt.mail.ird.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 73176 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2012 23:45:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=5Uj+yt6P/2Zrgri0dTTfwAkkJa0/RAWeWYVweNBUVM3kK7oj5t/uMbAWjM8Tih3YFDL8p96/1h+Kc0DJkXoexPYVdhnx1vwGRbnk/2bZifBV4F7ixs1htjdtH0ydho2X1MUcDgASNr98MmSz0FoZA0gAPf5bdV0KrueQIx+4A34= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1341531920; bh=lxls8VCaATxpLC87DjRD8kBSjHMRt6jrxyPaP57hrKA=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=vcElv44fvQTD0MvpIu2qqlZmS/yjb9+KJwxO0kK8ESmpMc5oIsDwanVzypynUTH5GiP1LlCFegzq6WlDMprF5/GZ9sjq9bh8+TqvmioWcTBU8pENtRRMjVkteEl3CTNQoj1HFV1DSTjVoOCpjgboYzwGw5ltuvA57xaKH8WhMNM= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: kpuK9ZUVM1ni3mCboS16PfoXC38x6o4QxvfWo5x8lJV2JkQ 1KtPEjLFCIl5glzwcFYi0YKJ_Jnh1U1e6VrmG5Ku91gWxe67XN90bKkghbRq _P6PQLzZtfQZLnEsGINAAyOqbanlr7aMwtwc7kG0dCrrFyKyuPDyN4iA0sHJ qM1zVujoksbgqpQjPkkRow9xk1JllPUCU6bjHHCvqruogb5UY2nEvU13JCx4 g5vTqWZ.6BT8nM603EzCjnAgkXC4aDmZrq1YrYNiTyK5ox_8wT80nqZpgAdh EmfIxsLpNPjpsKDEJB9rTLXusKDManSKBn3aFXMk0SYT8GlkayvxlV404Sgm t77tfKSkJfY3akovrAO9WjZawwKBm0oIXg8Tv9vpZ6O09HTg8UDUJWEZOsYI i8JNfA8TBBfIlkTNfHllT0SMmmPuxfegw X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.185.202.35 with login) by smtp819.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 05 Jul 2012 16:45:20 -0700 PDT Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A0FAB99CC@ICTS-S-MBX5.luna.kuleuven.be> <1SmrFA-199XcW0@fwd21.t-online.de> <4FF5EB68.9040507@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4FF61402.6000703@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> In-Reply-To: <4FF61402.6000703@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:45:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. 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Content preview: Dear Stefan, LF Group, In my experience, the oscillator circuit topology is usually less important than the component values used, the type of components, setting the bias current in the transistor, etc. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.82.109.206 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines X-Scan-Signature: b77892ad90d0261eaf071f4f6cf31464 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Analog oscillators Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-15"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:467787136:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d303.2 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600c4ff6275b31ff X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dear Stefan, LF Group, In my experience, the oscillator circuit topology is usually less important than the component values used, the type of components, setting the bias current in the transistor, etc. > It is a bit disapointing. The oscillator is drifting several 100 Hz when > looking to the divide by 4 side, i.e. the PA output i.e. close to 475 kHz. > I used 9 turns on a FT37-43. I suspect this inductor may be the problem. The temperature coefficient of the permeability of ferrite is high, so the inductance will drift a lot with temperature. Also, the Q of ferrite cored inductors is usually rather low, with the effect of requiring higher transistor gain to make it oscillate, and greater loading of the resonant circuit by the transistor as a result. I suggest using a Txx-2 iron dust core insted of the -43 ferrite. It will need many more turns, but the inductance will be much more stable and the Q much higher. The higher Q will enable you to reduce the bias current in the oscillator transistor, and/or increase the shunting capacitor values. This will reduce the loading caused by the transistor. Another way to increase stability is to reduce the operating frequency - an oscillator at 475kHz or 950kHz will tend to be more stable because the larger fixed capacitance values will mean the junction capacitance of the transistor will have less effect. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU