Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dk02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C01EA380000A5; Tue, 2 Oct 2012 17:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TJABh-0000hS-LS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:39:33 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TJABh-0000hJ-14 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:39:33 +0100 Received: from smtpout3.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.59] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TJABe-0006bQ-7n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:39:31 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.8.84]) by mwinf5d32 with ME id 6MfU1k00E1omvrW03MfUA8; Tue, 02 Oct 2012 23:39:29 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: ,<506A399A.2070800@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 22:39:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: May be more mileage in the feed choke ? c 137 . 110 ohms 1.37 mhz 10 ohms , assume the 470 pf takes care of hf , 10 ohms at 30 mhz ? some feed back with the 1 K ... try min pot 5 K ? [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.59 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 5fc8987c5011a8849fb47b0998281191 Subject: Re: Strefans LF: LF/MF modification of TS850 for LF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0110_01CDA0EE.C8108980" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1db406506b5f4a7bd3 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01CDA0EE.C8108980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable May be more mileage in the feed choke ? =20 c 137 . 110 ohms 1.37 mhz 10 ohms , assume the 470 pf = takes care of hf , 10 ohms at 30 mhz ? some feed back with the 1 K ... try min pot 5 K ?=20 G.. From: Laurence KL7UK=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:20 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Strefans LF: LF/MF modification of TS850 for LF http://kl7uk.com/850.png =20 Stefan - heres the part of the circuit concerned - its the coupling = after the 3rd mixer - so its at TX base band frequency, so I can see = perhaps why this C219 could be increased to reduce LF losses, but not a = lot me thinks as the reactance to "Earth" is pretty low at 137 - the aim = is to improve LF without mucking up the HF side so you can only go so = far. =20 I need to move the equipment into the garage from the shack - the garage = houses the W@G Pegglemessers so will do that and take some more = meaningful readings, but there is a small increase as yet undefined :-) =20 =20 - I need to complete the " (not)Transverter" switching mod to allow the = RF to come out of the phono socket at the back, but the MF filter, the = "fool the logic for all band tx (30kHz to 30MHz) is complete. More as it = develops or smokes. I need around 150 milliVolts to get the RF into the = Deccas drivers cct =20 Still very poor LF and MF - nearly no signals from Siberia/Mongolia on = LF - still at least the snow has stayed away. Loran was around 15dB down = from "average" last nite. Getting very dark in the mornings and a Huge = Male Moose ran into a car on the road into work this morning - both = car/driver and Moose didnt make it. =20 Im keeping this discussion on here as I know a few chaps have the 850's = and (maybe) of interest to the wider audience =20 Laurence KL1X GM4DMA=20 BP51 IP Wasilla Alaska =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Stefan said -=20 Hi Laurence,=20 Have you tried to check the increase of the signal voltage at higher = frequencies to see what e.g. doubling of that C causes? Is there no = increase at all?=20 Do you have the schematic of that section? 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 02.10.2012 02:31, schrieb Laurence KL7UK:=20 Looking for a bit of assistance. =20 Ive modded my TS850 to allow LF/MF transmit from info from = http://we0h.us/Amateur_Radio_stuff/TS850/ts_850_lf_tx_mod.pdf (thanks = Mike, original by Bob ZL2CA) but the "supplemental" parallel capacitor = value in uF to increase the LF level isnt mentioned.=20 =20 Ive actually tried another 0.01 and smaller and higher values but at = 137kHz it doesnt appear to increase the level - any takers or = experiences out there who have modded the beast?=20 =20 We had a load of snow here at the weekend but thankfully its gone = already and Im in the garden pulling up new ropes into 2 Spruce trees - = a bit stronger than the bendy Birch and Ill attempt to pull up the loop = this week. The loop will be slightly bigger, about 50m in length and = slightly higher than WD2XDW in Bartlesville. We will see. COnditions are = lousy at LF and MF given the Geo/Mag at this latitude but I was hearing = Eu on 20m over the Pole pre dawn. We lose nearly 6 mins of sun per day = at this time of year.... =20 Laurence KL1X =20 =20 =20 "The TS-850 transmit drive to the transverter port is reasonably = broadband as manufactured, and passes some LF energy for amplification using an external LF amplifier. It is = difficult to modify the TS-850 circuitry to decrease the LF droop without impacting on response at = other HF bands. One modification to improve low frequency response is to supplement the value of C219 = (a 0.01 uF capacitor, located near L88). It is possible to solder a parallel capacitor to the top = side of the RF Unit PCB. Otherwise the "broadband" circuits in the TS-850 transmit drive are accepted for = what they are. With C219 supplemented in value, 180 kHz output from IF OUT 1 is between about = 100 and 250 millivolts, whereas on HF it is more like 1 volt." ------=_NextPart_000_0110_01CDA0EE.C8108980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
May  be more  mileage  = in =20 the  feed  choke ?   
 
c   137  . 110 = ohms  =20 1.37  mhz   10  ohms    , assume  = the =20 470 pf  takes care  of  hf , 10 ohms  at  30 = mhz =20 ?
 
some  feed  back  with = the  1=20 K  ...  try    min pot   5 K ? =
 
G..

From: Laurence KL7UK
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:20 PM
Subject: Strefans LF: LF/MF modification of TS850 for=20 LF

http://kl7uk.com/850.png
 <= BR>Stefan=20 - heres the part of the circuit concerned - its the coupling after = the 3rd=20 mixer - so its at TX base band frequency, so I can see perhaps why = this=20 C219 could be increased to reduce LF losses, but not a lot me thinks as = the=20 reactance to "Earth" is pretty low at 137 - the aim is to improve = LF=20 without mucking up the HF side so you can only go so far.
 
I = need to=20 move the equipment into the garage from the shack - the garage houses=20 the W@G Pegglemessers so will do that = and take=20 some more meaningful readings, but there is a small increase as yet = undefined=20 :-)
 
 
- I need to complete the " (not)Transverter"=20 switching mod to allow the RF to come out of the phono socket at the = back, but=20 the MF filter, the "fool the logic for all band tx (30kHz to = 30MHz) is=20 complete. More as it develops or smokes.  I need around 150 = milliVolts to=20 get the RF into the Deccas drivers cct
 
Still very poor LF = and MF -=20 nearly no signals from Siberia/Mongolia on LF - still at least the = snow has=20 stayed away. Loran was around 15dB down from "average" last nite. = Getting very=20 dark in the mornings and a Huge Male Moose ran into a car on the road = into work=20 this morning - both car/driver and Moose didnt make it.
 
Im = keeping=20 this discussion on here as I know a few chaps have the 850's and (maybe) = of=20 interest to the wider audience
 
Laurence KL1X GM4DMA =
BP51 IP=20 Wasilla Alaska
 
 Stefan said -

Hi Laurence,

Have you tried to check = the=20 increase of the signal voltage at higher frequencies to see what e.g. = doubling=20 of that C causes? Is there no increase at all?
Do you have the = schematic of=20 that section?

73, Stefan/DK7FC

Am 02.10.2012 02:31, = schrieb=20 Laurence KL7UK:

Looking for a bit of = assistance.
 
 Ive=20 modded my TS850 to allow LF/MF transmit from info from  http://we0h.us/Amateur_Radio_stuff/TS850/ts_850_lf_tx_mod= .pdf =20 (thanks Mike, original by Bob ZL2CA)  but the=20 "supplemental" parallel capacitor value in uF to increase = the LF=20 level isnt mentioned.
 
Ive actually tried another 0.01 = and=20 smaller and higher values but at 137kHz it doesnt appear to increase = the level=20 - any takers or experiences out there who have modded the beast?=20
 
We had a load of snow here at the weekend but thankfully = its=20 gone already and Im in the garden pulling up new ropes into 2 Spruce = trees - a=20 bit stronger than the bendy Birch and Ill attempt to pull up the loop = this=20 week. The loop will be slightly bigger, about 50m in length and = slightly=20 higher than WD2XDW in Bartlesville. We will see. COnditions are lousy = at LF=20 and MF given the Geo/Mag at this latitude but I was hearing Eu on 20m = over the=20 Pole pre dawn. We lose nearly 6 mins of sun per day at this time of=20 year....
 
Laurence KL1X
 
 
 

"The TS-850 transmit drive to the transverter port is = reasonably=20 broadband as manufactured, and passes


some LF energy for amplification using an external LF = amplifier.=20 It is difficult to modify the TS-850


circuitry to decrease the LF droop without impacting = on response=20 at other HF bands. One modification


to improve low frequency response is to supplement the = value of=20 C219 (a 0.01 uF capacitor, located


near L88). It is possible to solder a parallel = capacitor to the=20 top side of the RF Unit PCB. Otherwise


the "broadband" circuits in the TS-850 transmit drive = are=20 accepted for what they are. With C219


supplemented in value, 180 kHz output from IF OUT 1 is = between=20 about 100 and 250 millivolts,


whereas on HF it is more like 1=20 volt."
------=_NextPart_000_0110_01CDA0EE.C8108980--