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Message-ID: <BDACDB1507F7407F9D6CB0F661060C89@PCCasa>
From: "Daniele Tincani" <daniele.tincani@alice.it>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
References: <71A8DF2CFC0B4036B2664789F2AC98E0@PCCasa> <021b01caceaa$4c358ae0$0201a8c0@Clemens04>
In-Reply-To: <021b01caceaa$4c358ae0$0201a8c0@Clemens04>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 21:27:42 +0200
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Subject: LF: Re: Re: Balun for tuned loop antenna
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Man thanks to Clemens DL4RAJ for his very prompt and helpful reply to=
my inquiry.
Best 73's
Daniele
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Clemens Paul=20
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:10 PM
Subject: LF: Re: Balun for tuned loop antenna
Hi Daniele,
according to your description your magnetic loop has an inductively=
coupled secondary coil,
the pickup coil as you call it, which presumably performs a step-dow=
n transformation
of around 10:1.
Therefore -because of the inductive coupling -=20
you can operate unbalanced on the secondary,i.e. rx side ,without di=
sturbing the receiving loop's
balance itself.
As to mismatch losses you need not worry at all.
If the rx had 50 Ohm and the antenna output 1000 Ohm you would just=
loose 7,4dB,
with 2500 Ohm it would be 8,3dB.
If your rx had say 10 kOhm and the antenna 500Ohm you would loose ag=
ain 7,4dB.
This is of *any* importance for SNR on MW/LW because of the high at=
msopheric noise.
Probably your low cost RX even will benefit from this small signal=
attenuation in terms of less
overloading.
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniele Tincani=20
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 8:08 PM
Subject: LF: Balun for tuned loop antenna
Hi all,
I'm new to the LF and just starting to play with an homebrew tuned=
magloop and my small portable (Tecsun PL-600).
I managed to enable (by means of the soldering iron :-)) the exter=
nal antenna jack also for MF and LF on PL-600 (normally it only works=
in HF). Now I can connect the pick-up turn of my magloop directly to=
the radio but I know it would be better to try to keep it balanced by=
means of a balun. Here my problem: magloop simulation (with rjeloop3.=
exe) tells the antenna has an impedance of between 500 and 2500 ohms=
(on the frequencies it covers, from 280KHz up to 1000KHz). On the oth=
er hand, I don't think the receiver have a 50ohm input. In fact, it is=
designed typically for HF random wires and has a JFET input buffer st=
age that should ensure an high impedance. Given these conditions, does=
it still make sense to build a balun? If yes, how could it be designe=
d in terms of number of turns (primary side and secondary side), etc.?
Many thanks for any feedback.
Reg's
Daniele
----------------------------------------------------------------------=
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-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18882">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Man thanks to Clemens DL4RAJ for his=
very prompt=20
and helpful reply to my inquiry.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Best 73's</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Daniele</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT:=
5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color:=
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dcpaul@gmx.net href=3D"mailto:cpaul@gmx.net">Clemens Paul<=
/A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Drsgb_lf_group@=
blacksheep.org href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_l=
f_group@blacksheep.org</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 28, 2010=
9:10=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> LF: Re: Balun for tu=
ned loop=20
antenna</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Hi Daniele,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>according to your description your=
magnetic loop=20
has an inductively coupled secondary coil,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>the pickup coil as you call it,=20
which presumably performs a step-down transformation</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>of around 10:1.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Therefore -because of the inductive=
coupling -=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>you can operate unbalanced on=
the=20
secondary,i.e. rx side ,without disturbing the receiving=20
loop's</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>balance itself.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>As to mismatch losses you need not=
worry at=20
all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>If the rx had 50 Ohm and the antenn=
a output 1000=20
Ohm</FONT> <FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>you would just loose=20
7,4dB,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>with 2500 Ohm it would=20
be 8,3dB.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>If your rx had say 10 kOhm and the=
antenna 500Ohm=20
you would loose again 7,4dB.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>This is of *any* importance for&nbs=
p; SNR on=20
MW/LW because of the high atmsopheric noise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Probably your low cost RX even will=
benefit from=20
this small signal attenuation in terms of less</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>overloading.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>73<BR>Clemens<BR>DL4RAJ</FONT></DIV=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEF=
T: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV=
>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-co=
lor: black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Ddaniele.tincani@alice.it href=3D"mailto:daniele.t=
incani@alice.it">Daniele Tincani</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Drsgb_l=
f_group@blacksheep.org href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.o=
rg">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 28, 201=
0 8:08=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> LF: Balun for tune=
d loop=20
antenna</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I'm new to the LF and just starti=
ng to play=20
with an homebrew tuned magloop and my small portable (Tecsun=20
PL-600).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I managed to enable (by means of=
the soldering=20
iron :-)) the external antenna jack also for MF and LF on PL-600=
(normally=20
it only works in HF). Now I can connect the pick-up turn of my mag=
loop=20
directly to the radio but I know it would be better to try to keep=
it=20
balanced by means of a balun. Here my problem: magloop simula=
tion (with=20
rjeloop3.exe) tells the antenna has an impedance of betw=
een 500=20
and 2500 ohms (on the frequencies it covers, from 280KHz up to 100=
0KHz). On=20
the other hand, I don't think the receiver have a 50ohm input. In=
fact, it=20
is designed typically for HF random wires and has a JFET input buf=
fer stage=20
that should ensure an high impedance. Given these conditions, does=
it still=20
make sense to build a balun? If yes, how could it be designed in=
terms of=20
number of turns (primary side and secondary side), etc.?</FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Many thanks for any feedback.</FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Reg's</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Daniele</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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t - www.avg.de=20
<BR>Version: 9.0.791 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2775 - Ausgabedatum=
: 03/28/10=20
08:32:00 <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P><BR>Nessun virus nel messaggio in arrivo.<BR>Controllato da=
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