Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t9JC1Fdo027167 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:01:15 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Zo94G-0006FN-5o for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:57:32 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Zo94F-0006F7-D4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:57:31 +0100 Received: from smtp206.alice.it ([82.57.200.102]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1Zo93F-0000jP-Bo for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:57:30 +0100 Received: from PCFausto (79.26.127.9) by smtp206.alice.it (8.6.060.28) id 56139B83024AD2D4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 13:56:10 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Fausto Coletti" To: References: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B2290AC@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B2290AC@servigilant.vigilant.local> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 13:56:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 X-Scan-Signature: 5c5b8e1c608c920535b1da14f570e3ff Subject: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01D10A75.E8E24790" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4513 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D10A75.E8E24790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Luis,=20 have you an idea about the Q of this coil?=20 A 11m vertical without a capacitance hat need a coil of about 1.7 mH for = resonate=20 at 472 KHz, so a reactance of about 5 Kohm.=20 If you divide the reactance with the Q you obtain the Rloss of the coil. = I do not think that a thin wire coil wound on a PVC support can have a Q = much over 100 so,=20 you will have a Rloss of about 50 ohm that you must add to the ground = loss. =20 A 11 m vertical without capacitance hat has about 0.1 ohm of radiation = resistance.=20 I do not know how much loss have your ground system but you said of one = 11 m wire...=20 I am very optimistic saying another 50 ohm. So you will have 0.1 ohm of = radiation resistance=20 with 100 ohm in series... a 0.1% efficiency...!! With 100W and = considering a directivity of 1.8,=20 you will have an EIRP of 180 mW.=20 I would start to consider an air wound coil made with thicker wire or a = Litz wire, with the turns spaced.=20 73, Fausto IK4NMF=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 12:52 PM Subject: RE: LF: EA5DOM going vertical Hi Stefan This is a picture of the coil 25cm diameter pipe, 90 cm high = https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/CAM00571.jp= g I can also fit this variometer on the top side of the pipe = https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/CAM00559.jp= g = https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/CAM00558.jp= g The -3dB of my signals yesterday are probably due to QRN on the Rx. We = had a big storm down in south EA Another one is predicted for tomorrow just here and strong rain. No = good for installing the coil 73 de Luis EA5DOM -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: domingo, 18 de octubre de 2015 23:20 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical Hi Luis, Am 18.10.2015 21:59, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:=20 For the transformer I plan to recycle the one osed for the loop. It = has two big toroids 80mm external diameter=20 and 8mm thick. Both joined make 16mm thick. Unfortunately don't know = which is the material used Hm, sounds not optimal, somehow :-) But just start with a 1:1 = transformer and a 50 Ohm dummy load as a first test. If the transformer = stays cold and the load (e.g. power consumption, or current meter = reading of the power supply) is the same with or without the = transformer, everything is fine. Can be primary and secondary be wounded one on top of the other ?? Yes, this is recommended! Tonight reports on my remote monitor are 3dB down. I made a = modification I have finally connected a wire from top terrace to the fire = extinguish pipe which runs inside the building down to the basements, were pumping system is located. The wire is not = yet connected to the ground side of the vertical BUT the actual radial counterpoise runs parallel to this wire for = about 5m Seems like this can be the cause of 3dB looses. ...but maybe the situation is different when matching the PA properly. = In the moment you don't know at all what the feed point impedance is. = ...and how the PA behaves at that impedance connected. Keep tuned !=20 RR. GL,=20 73, Stefan=20 Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2015.0.6172 / Database dei virus: 4447/10849 - Data di = rilascio: 19/10/2015 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D10A75.E8E24790 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Luis,
 
have you an idea about the Q of this = coil?=20
 
A 11m vertical without a = capacitance hat need=20 a coil of about 1.7 mH for resonate
at 472 KHz, so a reactance of about 5 = Kohm.=20
If you divide the reactance with the Q = you obtain=20 the Rloss of the coil.
I do not think that a thin wire coil = wound on a PVC=20 support can have a Q much over 100 so,
you will have a Rloss of about 50 ohm = that you must=20 add to the ground loss.  
A 11 m vertical without capacitance hat = has about=20 0.1 ohm of radiation resistance.
I do not know how much loss have your = ground system=20 but you said of one 11 m wire...
I am very optimistic saying another 50 = ohm. So you=20 will have 0.1 ohm of radiation resistance
with 100 ohm in series... a 0.1% = efficiency...!!=20 With 100W and considering a directivity of 1.8,
you will have an EIRP of 180 mW. =
I would = start to consider an air = wound coil made with thicker wire=20 or a Litz wire, with the turns spaced. =
 
73, Fausto = IK4NMF=20
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 VIGILANT = Luis=20 Fern=E1ndez
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 = 12:52=20 PM
Subject: RE: LF: EA5DOM going=20 vertical

Hi Stefan
 
This is a picture of the = coil
25cm diameter pipe, 90 cm = high
 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/= CAM00571.jpg
 
I can also fit this variometer on the top = side of the=20 pipe
 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/= CAM00559.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/= CAM00558.jpg
 
The -3dB of my signals yesterday are probably = due to QRN on=20 the Rx. We had a big storm down in south EA
 
Another one is predicted for tomorrow just here = and strong=20 rain. No good for installing the coil
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: = owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de=20 DK7FC
Enviado el: domingo, 18 de octubre de 2015=20 23:20
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: = Re: LF:=20 EA5DOM going vertical

Hi Luis,

Am 18.10.2015 21:59, schrieb VIGILANT Luis=20 Fern=E1ndez:=20 For the transformer I plan to recycle the one = osed for the=20 loop. It has two big toroids 80mm external diameter=20
and 8mm thick. Both joined make = 16mm thick.=20 Unfortunately don't know which is the material=20 used
Hm, sounds not optimal, somehow = :-) But=20 just start with a 1:1 transformer and a 50 Ohm dummy load as a first = test. If=20 the transformer stays cold and the load (e.g. power consumption, or = current=20 meter reading of the power supply) is the same with or without the=20 transformer, everything is fine.


Can be primary and secondary be = wounded one on=20 top of the other ??
Yes, this is=20 recommended!
Tonight reports on my remote = monitor are 3dB=20 down. I made a modification
I have finally connected a wire = from top=20 terrace to the fire extinguish pipe which runs inside the building=20 down
to the basements, were pumping = system is=20 located. The wire is not yet connected to the ground side of the=20 vertical
BUT the actual radial counterpoise = runs=20 parallel to this wire for about 5m

Seems like this can be the cause of = 3dB=20 looses.
...but maybe the situation is = different=20 when matching the PA properly. In the moment you don't know at all = what the=20 feed point impedance is. ...and how the PA behaves at that impedance=20 connected.
 Keep tuned !=20
RR. GL,

73, Stefan=20

Nessun virus nel=20 messaggio.
Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com
Versione: 2015.0.6172 / = Database=20 dei virus: 4447/10849 - Data di rilascio:=20 19/10/2015

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