Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dc03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 96D35380251A4; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1T77sz-0000Li-VF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:46:29 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1T77sz-0000LZ-8a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:46:29 +0100 Received: from smtpout1.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.29] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1T77sw-0005Ia-Rh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:46:28 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.16.54]) by mwinf5d05 with ME id t4mN1j00L19zBMe034mNn8; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 18:46:25 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <503EA718.2010301@charter.net>,<8CF54D89088EA63-22E8-50D77@webmail-d136.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:46:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: L.. If you running fixed frequency , you could use the com-port CW keying option and set the Tx to CW mode if there is a problem with the audio drive . Any ALC and or AGC will causes large over swing's , depending on the pulse length / off time and alc time constants , I think Amtor -arq was the only data mode that had similar problems , due to the pulse shape [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.29 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 31e464b680e3427073f16da582bb11f1 Subject: Re: LF: : Opera frequency usage and clicks, and over the Pole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0081_01CD86D7.5E9A17E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4083503fc26c4bfd X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01CD86D7.5E9A17E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable L.. If you running fixed frequency , you could use the com-port CW = keying option and set the Tx to CW mode if there is a problem = with the audio drive . Any ALC and or AGC will causes large over swing's , depending = on the pulse length / off time and alc time constants , I think = Amtor -arq was the only data mode that had similar problems , = due to the pulse shape=20 A quick test is using a Peak reading power meter , should be = very little change when switching from Pk to normal , or = observing the RF envelope. =20 73 -G.. =20 From: Laurence KL7UK=20 Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 5:19 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: : Opera frequency usage and clicks, and over the Pole Markus - I looked at the audio coming out of my sound card using Opera = 2 and certainly the keying on waveform, in my opinion is pretty fast = rise and the click is very tangible =20 In fact what I see is for shorter keying periods the key on rise is = slower - but if theres a substantial gap the next audio tone on is very = harsh and the key click hits the audio agc very hard.. Now, this may be = my sound card, but turning levels down doesnt appear to change the ramp = up rate at key on looking on the scope. I dont get the same with other = keyed audio tone problems that have a more softkeying ramp. Just my = observation here, wonder if it can be made a little softer if its more = than my local conditions here. =20 Over the pole wise Im still seeing nothing from Europe and only the = first tinges of DCF39 being visible at dot 60 slow - just. Laurence = KL1X Alaska -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: markusvester@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 11:09:20 -0400 Subject: LF: Opera frequency usage Sorry, no joy here from John's Op-8 last night, due to several adverse = conditions: - relatively high QRN levels. Little one can do about it - the ol' rule = "listen when QRN is low, transmit when it's high" is probably the best = guide for intercontinental LF work. - wrong RX frequency: I had set up my 2 Hz wide recording on 137561 and = went to bed before John's update arrived... In my opinion, splitting subbands for different Opera submodes is not a = good idea. I don't see a technical need for it, and it eats up a lot of = bandwidth, especially with the software's automatic frequency selection. = Anyway the 137.5-.6 band overlaps typical WSPR usage (137.4-.6). And the = area above 137.6 (especially the DCF gap around 137.63) would be the = best choice for QRSS-3 or 10 QSOs. - DK7FC was active on a nearby frequency during most of the night. In = conjunction with the noise blanker the RX is desensitized by the a = nearby strong signal. The problem is exacerbated by high density of = keyclicks in Opera (5 to 8x more than QRSS), and that most seem to apply = hard keying. Trying to interleave operating times (eg. even vs odd days, = or hours) is probably not a satisfactory solution. If we seriously consider using Opera for intercontinental work, I = believe that we should include it in the existing splitband scheme, with = widely spaced subbands for East-to-West and West-to-East operation (the = well-proven "TA" and "Eu" slots). For example, we could place a narrow = Opera slot beneath each of the QRSS segments. So, open to discussion, = here is one proposal for slow-mode band usage: 137.77-137.78 W->E DX QRSS, DFCW 30..180 =20 137.76-137.77 W->E DX Op 32 137.60-137.75 mid range QRSS, DFCW 3..10 137.50-137.60 mid range Op 2..8 137.40-137.50 WSPR 136.17-136.18 E->W DX QRSS, DFCW 30..180 =20 136.16-136.17 E->W DX Op 32 Best 73,=20 Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=FCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: John Andrews An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Do, 30 Aug 2012 4:15 am Betreff: Re: LF: LF acty Stephan,=20 =20 Actually, Jay was talking about transmitting OP8 also tonight. Not sure = of his plans. I will run XES until well after your sunrise.=20 =20 John, W1TAG/WD2XES=20 =20 On 8/29/2012 7:17 PM, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote:=20 > Hello John, Joe, LF,=20 >=20 > Wow, now there is much going on tonite again. Another time i don't = know=20 > if i should RX or TX and in which mode...=20 > I think i will not have a chance to decode W1TAG in OP8, however VO1NA = > in OP32 could be possible and would be my best rx-distance in OP.=20 > Furthermore i want to provide test signals for YV7MAE, so i'm now=20 > sending DFCW-90, after sending DFCW-180 to VK.=20 >=20 > John, will you transmit OP8 until the morning? Has Jay a chance to=20 > receive me in OP8 later or will you nearly overload his RX? :-)=20 >=20 > 73, Stefan/DK7FC=20 >=20 > PS: Our russian friends are doing a good job! Many stations, with good = > receivers and transmitters!=20 >=20 >=20 > Am 30.08.2012 00:33, schrieb John Andrews:=20 >> Forgot about the split Opera band for the two data rates. The actual=20 >> frequency tonight will be 137.621 kHz. Stick with 136.0 USB for a = dial=20 >> setting.=20 >>=20 >> John, W1TAG/WD2XES=20 > ------=_NextPart_000_0081_01CD86D7.5E9A17E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
L..
 
If you  running  fixed =20 frequency  , you  could  use the  com-port  CW=20 keying  option  and  set the  Tx to  CW = mode =20 if   there  is a problem  with the  audio  = drive=20 .
 
Any  ALC and  or  = AGC =20 will  causes  large  over swing's  , depending  = on=20 the  pulse length  / off  time  and   = alc =20 time  constants , I  think  Amtor -arq  was = the =20 only  data  mode that  had  similar problems  , = due to=20 the  pulse shape
 
A  quick  test  is  = using =20 a  Peak reading  power  meter  , should  = be =20 very  little  change  when  switching  from Pk = to =20 normal , or  observing  the  RF=20 envelope.  
 
73 -G.. 

From: Laurence KL7UK
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 5:19 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: LF: : Opera frequency usage and clicks, and over = the=20 Pole


Markus -  I looked at the audio coming = out of my=20 sound card using Opera 2 and certainly the keying on waveform, in = my=20 opinion is pretty fast rise and the click is very = tangible
 
 In=20 fact what I see is for shorter keying periods the key on rise is = slower -=20 but if theres a substantial gap the next audio tone on is very harsh and = the key=20 click hits the audio agc very hard.. Now, this may be my sound card, but = turning=20 levels down doesnt appear to change the ramp up rate at key on = looking on=20 the scope. I dont get the same with other keyed audio tone problems = that=20 have a more softkeying ramp. Just my observation here, wonder if it = can be=20 made a little softer if its more than my local conditions=20 here.
 
Over the pole wise Im still seeing nothing from = Europe and=20 only the first tinges of DCF39 being visible at dot 60 slow - just.=20  Laurence KL1X Alaska
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
From: markusvester@aol.com
Date: = Thu, 30=20 Aug 2012 11:09:20 -0400
Subject: LF: Opera frequency usage

Sorry, = no joy=20 here from John's Op-8 last night, due to several adverse = conditions:
 
- relatively high QRN levels. Little one can do about it - the ol' = rule=20 "listen when QRN is low, transmit when it's high" is probably the best = guide for=20 intercontinental LF work.
 
- wrong RX frequency: I had set up my 2 Hz wide recording on 137561 = and=20 went to bed before John's update arrived...
In my opinion, splitting = subbands=20 for different Opera submodes is not a good idea. I don't see a technical = need=20 for it, and it eats up a lot of bandwidth, especially with the = software's=20 automatic frequency selection. Anyway the 137.5-.6 band overlaps typical = WSPR=20 usage (137.4-.6). And the area above 137.6 (especially the DCF gap = around=20 137.63) would be the best choice for QRSS-3 or 10 QSOs.
 
- DK7FC was active on a nearby frequency during most of the night. = In=20 conjunction with the noise blanker the RX is desensitized by the a = nearby strong=20 signal. The problem is exacerbated by high density of keyclicks in Opera = (5 to=20 8x more than QRSS), and that most seem to apply hard keying. Trying = to=20 interleave operating times (eg. even vs odd days, or hours) is probably = not a=20 satisfactory solution.
 
If we seriously consider using Opera for intercontinental work, I = believe=20 that we should include it in the existing splitband scheme, with widely = spaced=20 subbands for East-to-West and West-to-East operation (the well-proven = "TA" and=20 "Eu" slots). For example, we could place a narrow Opera slot beneath = each of the=20 QRSS segments. So, open to discussion, here is one proposal for = slow-mode band=20 usage:
 
137.77-137.78 W->E DX QRSS, DFCW 30..180 
137.76-137.77 = W->E=20 DX Op 32
 
137.60-137.75 mid range QRSS, DFCW 3..10
137.50-137.60 mid range = Op=20 2..8
137.40-137.50 WSPR
 
136.17-136.18 E->W DX QRSS, DFCW 30..180 
136.16-136.17 = E->W=20 DX Op 32
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)

-----Urspr=FCngliche = Mitteilung-----=20
Von: John Andrews <w1tag@charter.net>
An: rsgb_lf_group=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Do, 30 Aug 2012 4:15 = am
Betreff: Re: LF: LF acty


Stephan, 

 

Actually, Jay was talking about transmitting OP8 also tonight. Not sure  =


of his plans. I will run XES until well after your sunrise. 

 

John, W1TAG/WD2XES 

 

On 8/29/2012 7:17 PM, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: 

> Hello John, Joe, LF, 

> 

> Wow, now there is much going on tonite again. Another time i don't =
know 

> if i should RX or TX and in which mode... 

> I think i will not have a chance to decode W1TAG in OP8, however =
VO1NA 

> in OP32 could be possible and would be my best rx-distance in OP. =


> Furthermore i want to provide test signals for YV7MAE, so i'm now =


> sending DFCW-90, after sending DFCW-180 to VK. 

> 

> John, will you transmit OP8 until the morning? Has Jay a chance to =


> receive me in OP8 later or will you nearly overload his RX? :-) =


> 

> 73, Stefan/DK7FC 

> 

> PS: Our russian friends are doing a good job! Many stations, with =
good 

> receivers and transmitters! 

> 

> 

> Am 30.08.2012 00:33, schrieb John Andrews: 

>> Forgot about the split Opera band for the two data rates. The =
actual 

>> frequency tonight will be 137.621 kHz. Stick with 136.0 USB for =
a dial 

>> setting. 

>> 

>> John, W1TAG/WD2XES 

>
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