Message-ID: <B6CF0DAEE41F4519B2F7E74655603C4A@PcMinto>
From: Minto Witteveen <minto.witteveen@gmail.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
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Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 21:34:27 +0200
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Subject: Re: AW: Re: LF: Re: CW sked on 137 friday morning?
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Hi Marco,

Sorry for the belated reply, but for some reason your mail was caught by 
google's spamfilter... (this is unusual, for Google rarely makes false 
positives)

But I assume that you also use a (sharp) filter then? My 817 (but also the 
897 which is electrically the same as the 857) suffers from severe intermod 
in LF without filters.

Regards,
Minto pa3bca




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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
-----Original Message----- 
From: Scholz, Marco
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 13:16
To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'
Subject: AW: Re: LF: Re: CW sked on 137 friday morning?

Hello Minto,
I use a FT-857 with a preamp for receiption on 137KHz. The FT-817 should be 
simular i think and from my expierence the best is to switch off ALC.

Vy73
Marco,DD7PC

----- Originalnachricht -----
Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Gesendet: Sun Aug 07 10:56:29 2011
Betreff: Re: LF: Re: CW sked on 137 friday morning?

Hello Minto,

Am 07.08.2011 00:10, schrieb Minto Witteveen:
> Just a question: How do you use speclab to measure the signal level of
> for instance DCF39 AND the noisefloor.. By measuring both and comparing?
I don't use a commercial HF TRX for LF but a down-converter (LF-125 kHz)
so i am not limited to a SSB filter bandwidth. I can display 125...149
kHz when running the soundcard at 48 kS/s. So a slight difference here.
But generally you must switch off the AGC and ALC and noise blanking and
all that affects the output AF level. Then you can measure the absolute
levels, e.g. -10 dB for DCF and -80 dB for the band noise and -90 dB for
the RX noise.
Just read it out on the right side.
I did a audio recording during the QSOs. My loop was beaming N/S, so not
optimally for DCF-39. Anyway it was 85 dB S/N in 488 mHz (i use 488 mHz
for QRSS-3). So this is an example how to simply read out the SNR:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/DCF39%20in%20488%20mHz.png
Anyway there could be 10 dB more sensitivity on my RX to have best
reception in a quiet sunday morning in winther...

> - but then I would have to disable the ALC of the FT817?.
Not sure but i would disable anything ;-)
> I can try /p sometime, go out in the fields far away from man-made
> noise, with the miniwhip, a 12 meter fiberglass pole, a 7Ah SLA, the
> transverter and the 817.
If you are outside in a flat field, you maybe do not need to lift the
antenna to 12m! 3m could be reasonable. Yes, beeing outside will at
least show you if its all caused by local QRM...

73, Stefan/DK7FC


>
> Regards, Minto pa3bca
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
> Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
> -----Original Message----- From: Stefan Schäfer
> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 16:51
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Subject: Re: LF: Re: CW sked on 137 friday morning?
>
> Hello Minto,
>
> Am 05.08.2011 23:59, schrieb Minto Witteveen:
>> Stefan (et al),
>> I did listen this morning on 136.8 to see if I could copy you or any
>> other station, but the results were disappointing: I heard nothing.
> Thanks for trying anyway.
> Well, i was in QSO mit PA0A who must be close to you, so something must
> be wrong...
>> I have an FT817 and an FT879 as possible receivers. Both are not
>> known for their superb receive quality but with a 5 pole filter +
>> additional amplification I got them to work quite reasonable on 500 KHz.
>> Both rigs are very bad on LF. Very insensitive and prone to heavy
>> intermodulation, especially at night.
>> So this weekend I build a quick-and-dirty 4 MHz uptransverter with a
>> SA612. The Yeasu’s are much more sensitive at these frequencies. To
>> keep strong LF and MF stations from causing intermodulation had to
>> add 7-pole Chebishev filter between a PA0RDT miniwhip and the
>> transverter. For details see:
>> http://www.pa3bca.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=17
>>
> Looks good, that page.
>> This morning (when there was almost no man-made QRM form TV’s etc)
>> DCF39 was S9+30dB on the 897. On (4000+) 136.8 the noise was S 5 with
>> the 2.4 KHz SSB filter, and S1 with the 500 Hz filter.
>> Now I know that the FT’s S-meter is not very reliable, especially
>> from S1-S9. But between S9 and S9+40 it is “reasonably” accurate.
> If you use SpecLab for receiving, you directly get the signal level in
> dB (i.e. dB below full scale of the ADC). Then you can measure the DCF39
> level and the noise floor level. Meanwhile i am getting DCF39 at 80 dB
> above noise in 488 mHz with the RX loop.
>> As far as I could find out DCF39 generates 50 KW ERP. If Stefan
>> generates 0.5 Watt ERP (My guestimate)
> Should be a few dB more ;-)
>> and the distance to my QTH is approximately the same, I would expect
>> Stefan to be 50 dB weaker. But 50 dB below DCF39 would still be above
>> the noise floor? So why didn’t I hear him (or for that matter, PA0A
>> who is closer and has 1 Watt ERP).
> Maybe the S meter is worse than you think, maybe.
>> Before I finish my 1 kW TX I first have to make sure that I will be
>> able to copy any other station.... :-)
> I had the same problems. But i immediately received DF6NM audible. So if
> you don't even receive PA0A, there seems to be lack of sensitivity.
> What happens with the noise floor if you disconnect the PA0RDT? How many
> dB does the noise floor decrease?
> Can you do /p tests?
>
> Don't expect to much activity on LF. But there are new stations coming
> on the band and you could be one of them and help making the band alie
> again.
>
> CU there :-)
>
> 73, Stefan/DK7FC