Return-Path: Received: from rly-dc09.mx.aol.com (rly-dc09.mail.aol.com [172.19.136.38]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILINDC081-b3d4897a20a1c6; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:43:13 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-dc09.mx.aol.com (v121_r2.11) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDC091-b3d4897a20a1c6; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:42:53 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1KQAct-0005K5-9X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:42:11 +0100 Received: from [193.82.59.130] (helo=relay2.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1KQAcr-0005Jw-Vv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:42:10 +0100 Received: from smtp3.wanadoo.co.uk ([193.252.22.156] helo=smtp3.freeserve.com) by relay2.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KQAco-0003yF-20 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:42:09 +0100 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3202.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 6AA987000084 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:41:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.110.80.237]) by mwinf3202.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 7E9DA7000083 for ; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 02:41:57 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20080805004157518.7E9DA7000083@mwinf3202.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <004a01c8f19b$3d370520$a402a8c0@Inspiron> <011925433193420FAA184FA6E7F8CDA9@DennisPC> <120FCD1BCEFD4733A70BB7E4DE695E1F@AGB> <847A2BA37D8C4C88BE7899AFE777998A@DennisPC> <4FEA55415CE3426391A1472DCA8FB59D@AGB> <001a01c8f658$771997a0$0301a8c0@mal769a60aa920> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 01:41:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,AWL=0.419,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_018E_01C8F69C.720991E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_helo : n X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: listenair ; SPF_822_from : n ------=_NextPart_000_018E_01C8F69C.720991E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Contrary to Mesolithic belief the earth'ing arrangement for a modern comp= act array is actually quite important , as the coupling to the earths magn= etoshphere is far better and most efficiently accomplished by a correctly lo= aded and properly proportioned perpendicularly erect mono pole, than that ac= hievable, but a some what longer flaccid and regrettable lower sagging ele= ment stretched possibly beyond its elastic limit wallowing in an obscenely h= igh ground capacity.=20 =20 Such pompous arrays when modelled with the appliance of science , reveal the= ugly and un slightly truth that there entire efforts are directed skywards=20= simply ensuring as in the proverbial , discharge to windward , ensuring yo= u simply get your own back . =20 The far more efficient and elegantly modelled short loaded vertical on the o= ther hand , can be demonstrated to meet the more modern criteria of . 'its=20= not what you have its what you do with it that count's' a most modern and=20= elegant stance.=20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:35 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV If an Earth spike does more for a signal than an Antenna you have a serious=20= problem. The Earth spike is really the Antenna and the so called antenna is=20= just by the way=20 G3KEV=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Dennis, I'm in a state of flux at this end , having a big move round ,,which has=20= not gone to plan still operational on hf , but all the mf kit is in boxes=20= at the moment , I can take a look , on 500 , with low power you will be bett= er sending very slow cw and checking on the grabbers , you should show at B= irmingham and later in the night at Shetland ... Shetland is a very strange=20= place as there doesn't look to be any background noise . ... apart from the= wind that occasionally removes the antenna ! Gary is also running a on lin= e 'grabber' he's about 60 miles north of Birmingham . you may shown there...= =20 Oddly , a good earth looks to do more for the signal than the Ae , any pi= pes rods ect in the ground , use individual wires and bring them all back =20= to the same earth point , its not conductance that makes the difference is g= round capacity , the more the better , wires under the top of the ae will ad= d to the return path for the current... =20 The top loading coil, 40 turns of 30 amp wire on a coke bottle , (other= s may of used a cider flagon .... they know who they are) ... and i think Ga= ry favours a centre one, made a big improvement. Anything that increases the= current in the vertical section of the system , don't bother with long low= wires , these just radiate vertically upwards.. the annoying thing is the station now works much better on top band and 8= 0 mtrs as a result of the mod's embodied for 500... could of done them 15 ye= ars ago=20 Q how are you generating fsk ? =20 Good luck=20 Graham From: DENNIS EASTERLING=20 Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:00 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Graham Thanks for your e-mail and encouraging remarks. I have made a couple of=20= test transmissions, but no comments so far. I am having to suspend ops for= the present as my neighbour is having a nearby tree felled and I have lower= ed my antenna just in case. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 1:27 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Dennis, Don't worry about operation on vlf, I think you find the band acts more= like top band , with a well defined service area ~60/ 70 miles and a first=20= skip round 200/250 , I can see a trace at Birmingham with 500mW to my antenn= a , only real problem is the dreaded deep fade 'qsb' whic takes the signal o= ut 30 seconds up to 1 minuet + , which causes havoc with rtty , as you have= no idea if the other station copied anything .... dont suppose you have amt= or ? =20 I doubt you will cause any interference with those power levels , I ran= 20 watts to a inverted L 40 ft x 40 ft for a long time , which radiated qu= ite well , but after adding a top loading coil found it worked a lot better=20= , with 150 watts and a new variometer tuner , still didn't record any proble= ms .. Had more problems with the pc jamming the incoming signals and a funny l= ong life bulb that radiated a well spaced spectrum across the band ! check=20= out the pages on the google uk500khz web news group for links to the grabbe= rs etc .=20 73 's=20 Graham ..=20 G0NBD=20 From: DENNIS EASTERLING=20 Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:52 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV Hi Lee I have just got my NOV to operate on 500kHz, so will be dipping my toe i= nto the water from next week. I have not got any 138kHz experience and only obtained my full amateur l= icence last May. On my application for the NOV, I provided a scale diagram of my own and=20= immediate neighbour's properties, gave a brief description of the TX(home br= ew), RX(Lowe HF-225) and antenna(T) that I intend to use and an estimate of=20= my erp from the TANTENNA program on the internet (200mW). As I am using a V= FO, I use a counter to measure the frequency and also monitor transmissions=20= using the RX which has a digital readout. I also stated that I would cease= transmissions until any complaint was satisfactorily resolverd, and mention= ed two nearby amateurs also working on 500kHz whose help and advice I could=20= seek. All the above seemed to work, so good luck on your application. The mor= e the merrier. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lee Hudson=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:50 PM Subject: LF: 500KHz NoV Hi All, After reading through loads of stuff and monitoring the LF Group I'm l= eft with the decision of whether to start on 136 or 500KHz. 500KHz seems much easier to deal with from the outset, and hopefully t= he NoV period will be extended further next year. However the NoV itself is the possible stumbling block in that it appe= ars that experience on 136KHz is a big plus that Ofcom appear to be looking=20= for, My question is, would I get away with applying for a NoV without first= being active on 136KHz, or has anyone already taken this route and been suc= cessful? 73, Lee M0LMH. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1581 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 06= :56 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 17= :30 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release Date: 8/4/2008 08= :09 ------=_NextPart_000_018E_01C8F69C.720991E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Contra= ry to  Mesolithic  belief the earth=92ing  arrangement for a modern compact array=20  is actually quite important ,= as=20 the coupling to  the earths=20 magnetoshphere is far better and most efficiently accomplished by a correctl= y=20 loaded and properly proportioned perpendicularly erect mono pole, than that=20 achievable, but a some what longer flaccid and regrettable lower  sagging  element stretched possibly beyond its=20 elastic limit wallowing in an obscenely high ground capacity.

 

Such p= ompous=20 arrays when modelled with the appliance of science , reveal the ugly and un=20 slightly truth that there entire efforts are directed skywards simply ensuri= ng=20 as in the proverbial , discharge to =20 windward ,  ensuring yo= u=20 simply get your own back .

 

The fa= r more=20 efficient and elegantly modelled short loaded vertical on the other hand , c= an=20 be demonstrated to  meet the m= ore=20 modern criteria of . =91its not what you have its what you do  with it that count=92s=92  a most modern and elegant  stance.=20


Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

If an Earth spike does more for a signal th= an an=20 Antenna you have a serious problem. The Earth spike is really the Antenna an= d=20 the so called antenna is just by the way
G3KEV
----- Original Message -----
Graham
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 7:43=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Dennis,
 
I'm in  a state of flux at this end=20= , having=20 a big move round ,,which has not gone to  plan  still operationa= l on=20 hf , but all the mf kit is in boxes at the moment , I can take a look , on= 500=20 , with low power you will be better sending very  slow cw and checkin= g on=20 the grabbers , you should show at Birmingham and later in the night a= t=20 Shetland ... Shetland is a very strange place as there doesn't look to&nbs= p;=20 be any background noise . ... apart from the wind that occasionally=20 removes the antenna ! Gary is also  running a on line 'grabber' he's=20 about 60 miles north of Birmingham . you may shown there...
 
Oddly , a good earth looks to  do mo= re for=20 the signal than the Ae , any pipes rods  ect in the ground , use=20 individual wires and bring them all back  to the same earth point , i= ts=20 not conductance that makes the difference is ground capacity , the more th= e=20 better , wires under the top of the ae will add  to  the return=20= path=20 for the current...  
 
 The top loading coil, 40  turn= s of 30=20 amp wire  on a coke bottle , (others may of used a cider flagon=20= ....=20 they know who they are) ... and i think Gary favours a centre one, ma= de a=20 big improvement. Anything that increase= s the=20 current in the vertical section of the system , don't  bother with lo= ng=20 low wires , these just radiate vertically upwards..
the annoying thing is  the stat= ion now=20 works much better on top band and 80 mtrs as a result of the mod's embodie= d=20 for 500... could of done them 15 years ago
 
Q how are you generating fsk ?=20  
 
Good luck
 
Graham
 
 
 
 

Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Graham
 
Thanks for your e-mail and encouraging=20 remarks.   I have made a couple of test transmissions, but no=20 comments so far.   I am having to suspend ops for the present as= my=20 neighbour is having a nearby tree felled and I have lowered my antenna jus= t in=20 case.
 
73 Dennis M0JXM
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Graham
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 1:2= 7=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Dennis,
 
Don't worry about  operation on vl= f, I=20 think you find the band acts more like top band , with a well defined=20 service area ~60/ 70 miles and a first skip round 200/250 , I can see a=20 trace at Birmingham with 500mW to my antenna , only real problem is the=20 dreaded deep fade 'qsb' whic takes the signal out 30 seconds up to = 1=20 minuet + , which causes havoc with rtty , as you have no idea if the oth= er=20 station copied anything .... dont suppose you have amtor ?=20  
 
I doubt you will cause any interference= =20 with  those power levels , I ran 20 watts to a inverted L = ; 40=20 ft x 40 ft for a long time , which radiated quite well , but after addin= g a=20 top loading coil found it worked a lot better , with 150 watts and a new= =20 variometer tuner , still didn't record any problems ..
 
Had more problems with the pc jamming t= he=20 incoming signals and a funny long life bulb that radiated a well spaced=20 spectrum across the band  ! check out the pages on the google = =20 uk500khz web news group for links to the grabbers etc .
 
73 's
 
Graham ..
 
G0NBD
 
 
 

Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: LF: Re: 500KHz NoV

Hi Lee
 
I have just got my NOV to operate on 50= 0kHz, so=20 will be dipping my toe into the water from next week.
 
I have not got any 138kHz experience an= d only=20 obtained my full amateur licence last May.
On my application for the NOV, I provid= ed a=20 scale diagram of my own and immediate neighbour's properties, gave=20= a=20 brief description of the TX(home brew), RX(Lowe HF-225) and antenna(T)=20 that I intend to use and an estimate of my erp from the TANTENNA=20 program on the internet (200mW).  As I am using a VFO, I use a coun= ter=20 to measure the frequency and also monitor transmissions using the RX whi= ch=20 has a digital readout.   I also stated that I would cease=20 transmissions until any complaint was satisfactorily resolverd, and=20 mentioned two nearby amateurs also working on 500kHz whose help and advi= ce I=20 could seek.
 
All the above seemed to work, so good l= uck on=20 your application.  The more the merrier.
 
73 Dennis M0JXM
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lee Hudson
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:= 50=20 PM
Subject: LF: 500KHz NoV

Hi All,

 

After reading through lo= ads of=20 stuff and monitoring the LF Group I=92m left with the decision of whet= her to=20 start on 136 or 500KHz.

 

500KHz seems much easier= to=20 deal with from the outset, and hopefully the NoV period will be extend= ed=20 further next year.

However the NoV itself i= s the=20 possible stumbling block in that it appears that experience on 136KHz=20= is a=20 big plus that Ofcom appear to be looking for,

 

My question is, would I=20= get=20 away with applying for a NoV without first being active on 136KHz, or=20= has=20 anyone already taken this route and been successful?

 

73,

Lee M0LMH.=

 

= 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1581 - Release Date: 7/30/2008 06=
:56

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 17=
:30

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release Date: 8/4/2008 08=
:09
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