Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t8SNlpQG004908 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 01:47:52 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Zgi5k-0007J7-Rf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:44:20 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Zgi5k-0007Iy-8R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:44:20 +0100 Received: from smtpout3.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.59] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1Zgi4h-0003JG-6p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:44:19 +0100 Received: from AGB ([95.150.80.163]) by mwinf5d39 with ME id Nnj31r00A3XR26P03nj3hU; Tue, 29 Sep 2015 01:43:04 +0200 X-ME-Helo: AGB X-ME-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 01:43:04 +0200 X-ME-IP: 95.150.80.163 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B1EF64B@servigilant.vigilant.local><9E22D5EFF00D4A03B90E508E5DA3811E@AGB><6AEC4F77D42B410A93A8CBD356126A83@AGB> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:43:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Scan-Signature: 799afa1b224c6472a7a54c2fda9f06de Subject: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB1489.0 Hz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CB_01D0FA4F.CCA6FAC0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4195 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01D0FA4F.CCA6FAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok Iban, The question is , which is the best ? difficult , both have the = same s/n , may be the mini-whip ? as same s/n , more % fade , = [more dropped bits] peak signal must be higher ? or the qsb = deeper ? 73-G, From: Iban Cardona=20 Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 8:04 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 = dB1489.0 Hz Hi, Graaham this the edata: EB3FRN Afredi netsdr + 2mt active loop =20 EB3FRN-1 ICOM R9000 + mini-whip 73! Iban eb3frn On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Graham wrote: -1 Rx ?=20 18:51 477 PA3ABK de EB3FRN Op8 759 mi -30 dB F:13% in MONTBRIO 1503.9 = Hz with 0.5w + Marconi lin. loaded top 45m total 18:51 477 PA3ABK de EB3FRN-1 Op8 759 mi -30 dB F:17% in MONTBRIO = 1501.5 Hz with 0.5w + Marconi lin. loaded top 45m total From: Graham=20 Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 6:37 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 = dB1489.0 Hz Ok Luis=20 Yes , had to be something 'loopy' going on , from the levels , 25 = watts should do the job then , was the level 16 watts before ? GL with the vertical , if its locations is where I think it = will be : -) you may not need the variometer , just a tapped = coil and a var-capacitor from a old valve Rx=20 Are you still sending opera/wspr ? or just OP8 , no wspr = spots showing during daylight to day ?=20 73-G, 2015-09-28 07:00 EA5DOM 0.475613 -28 0 IM98wn 0.002 = EB3FRN JN01mc 300 19 =20 2015-09-28 02:00 EA5DOM 0.475612 -25 0 IM98wn 0.002 = EB3FRN JN01mc 300 19 =20 2015-09-28 01:48 EA5DOM 0.475612 -24 0 IM98wn 0.002 = EB3FRN JN01mc 300 19 =20 2015-09-28 01:36 EA5DOM 0.475612 -25 0 IM98wn 0.002 = EB3FRN JN01mc 300 19 =20 2015-09-28 01:00 EA5DOM 0.475613 -26 0 IM98wn 0.002 = EB3FRN JN01mc 300 19 =20 2015-09-27 23:12 EA5DOM 0.475613 -25 0 IM98wn 0.002 = EB3FRN JN01mc 300 19 =20 2015-09-27 22:48 EA5DOM 0.475613 -26 0 IM98wn 0.002 = EB3FRN JN01mc 300 19 =20 2015-09-27 22:36 EA5DOM 0.475613 -26 0 IM98wn 0.002 = EB3FRN JN01mc 300 19 =20 2015-09-27 21:24 EA5DOM 0.475613 -27 0 IM98wn 0.002 = EB3FRN JN01mc 300 19 =20 2015-09-27 18:48 EA5DOM 0.475617 -25 0 IM98wn 0.002 = EB3FRN JN01mc 300 19 =20 From: VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez=20 Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 4:02 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 = dB1489.0 Hz Hi Graham The answer is ... QRO :) I'm running the 100w PA made by Fausto IK4NMF. Not big signal increase = in local (7km) decodes but clear difference at 300Km as seen by EB3FRN After improving loop matching, PA works at full power. Fortunately = Opera8 keeps the PA almost cold while a single WSPR-2 period is a real stress test. Loop match is = still far from perfect and stressing full power modes are not wellcome with this setup=20 As Stefan told, keeping the loop tuned is an endless task and not the = way to go for QRO/Dx Even worse for a flat horizontal loop like mine Next in the list is going vertical. Coil and variometer on the way. = Keep tuned ;-) 73 de Luis EA5DOM Audacity of it , in board daylight as well=20 These are all well above the Dynamic switch over level , Q question = for the propagation dep't , what's changed ? local decode levels still -5/-6 dB , but that path is upto 6 dB = less attenuation [ opera > dynamic s/n still average and same = calibration] 73-G, 14:32 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 -28 dB F:11% in MONTBRIO 1482.9 Hz 14:20 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 -27 dB F:8% in MONTBRIO 1482.7 Hz 14:08 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 -29 dB F:8% in MONTBRIO 1482.9 Hz 13:56 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 186 mi -28 dB F:8% in MONTBRIO 1482.4 = Hz 13:56 477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 4 mi -6 dB F:14% in Albir 1479,5 Hz 12:44 477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 -5 dB F:9% in Albir 1479,5 Hz 12:44 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 -30 dB F:13% in MONTBRIO 1482.7 Hz From: Iban Cardona=20 Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 1:08 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 = dB1489.0 Hz Hi, Graham=20 copying to G6AVK too, with nice signals 23:05 477 G6AVK Op8 1503.9 Hz -25 dB Fade: 2% I attach a pict from my grabber where can see EA5DOM and G6AVK at the = same time 73! Iban eb3frn On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 2:00 AM, Graham = wrote: True Luis , just like just like VW 'crazy' code :- ) Good signals in the night to EB3FRM ! 73-G, EA5DOM de SWL-EB3FRN (Spain): Op8 F:25% -28 dB in MONTBRIO 1489.0 Hz EA5DOM de SWL-EB3FRN (Spain): Op8 F:12% -32 dB in MONTBRIO 1488.5 Hz From: VIGILANT Luis Fern=C3=A1ndez=20 Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2015 4:18 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 = dB1489.0 Hz You catched me Graham ! ;-) Running the horizontal loop again. Better matching to the PA than = before, but only 8W now I have continued Txing WSPR and Opera8 during daylight hours. = Nothing on WSPR-2 at EB3FRN but Opera is decodable at Deep Search. Turned on my monitor to = confirm the spots and then the Deep Search spots marked as "??" go without question marks 12:59 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -34 dB in MONTBRIO = 1488.8 Hz 12:58 477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 -5 dB F:13% in Albir 12:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search ?? -36 dB in MONTBRIO = 1488.8 Hz 12:23 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search ?? -36 dB in MONTBRIO = 1488.8 Hz 11:59 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search ?? -35 dB in MONTBRIO = 1488.8 Hz Big difference over WSPR-2 and even taking in consideration the = higer QRM at EB3FRN during daylight hours 73 de Luis EA5DOM -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] en nombre de Graham = [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk] Enviado: s=C3=A1bado, 26 de septiembre de 2015 1:40 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: LF: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB1489.0 = Hz Jump in Opera activity to day , with excellent conditions on 14 = MHz UK/EU<>VK =20 LF/MF - Note the PSK map ONLY shows opera data decodes , = Dynamic spots are routed via the Opera APP=20 Good demonstration of running a local ' Rx on LF and MF by EA5DOM = , only reaching EB3FRN in Dynamic , but validated by the local off air = time stamp and recovered average frequency , within 200 mHz , -36 dB is = about the lower limit for op8D 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB1489.0 Hz 23:34 477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 -5 dB F:1%_End in Albir 23:23 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB in1488.8 Hz 23:22 477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 -5 dB F:1%_End in Albir 23:11 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB in MONTBRIO 1488.8 = Hz 23:10 477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 -5 dB F:2% in Albir Dynamic spots not showing=20 21:24 136 RN3AGC de G3XDV Op32 Deep Search -42 dB in Welwyn = 1535.8 Hz 20:42 136 G3XDV de EW6BN Op32 Deep Search 1204 mi -42 dB=20 20:37 136 IZ7SLZ de SV8RV-4 Op32 Deep Search -41 dB=20 20:37 136 IZ7SLZ de G4WGT Op32 Deep Search -42 dB=20 20:37 136 IZ7SLZ de SV8RV-1 Op32 Deep Search -42 d 73-G, ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01D0FA4F.CCA6FAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok  Iban,
 
The  question  is , which is the  best  ? = difficult=20 ,  both  have the  same  s/n  ,   may = be  the  mini-whip  ? as   same  s/n  = , more=20 % fade , [more dropped bits]  peak  signal  must be  = higher  ?  or the  qsb deeper ?
 
73-G,
 
 
 

Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep = Search -36=20 dB1489.0 Hz

Hi, Graaham

this the edata:

EB3FRN Afredi netsdr + 2mt active loop =20
EB3FRN-1 ICOM R9000 + mini-whip

73! Iban
eb3frn


On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
 
-1  Rx ?

18:51 477 PA3ABK de EB3FRN Op8 759 mi -30 dB F:13% in MONTBRIO = 1503.9 Hz=20 with 0.5w + Marconi lin. loaded top 45m total

18:51 477 PA3ABK de EB3FRN-1 Op8 759 mi -30 dB F:17% in MONTBRIO = 1501.5 Hz=20 with 0.5w + Marconi lin. loaded top 45m total

 
 

From: Graham =
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep = Search=20 -36 dB1489.0 Hz

Ok Luis
 
Yes , had to be something  'loopy' going  on , from = the =20 levels ,  25 watts  should  do  the  job then = , was=20 the  level  16  watts  before ?
 
GL with the  vertical ,  if its  locations = is =20 where  I think  it  will  be : -)   = you =20 may not  need  the variometer , just a  tapped  = coil=20 and  a  var-capacitor from a  old  valve Rx
 
Are you still  sending    opera/wspr  = ? =20 or  just  OP8 , no  wspr spots showing during=20 daylight  to  day ?
 
73-G,
 
 
2015-09-28 = 07:00   EA5DOM   0.475613   -28   0   IM98wn   0.002   EB3FRN   JN01mc   300   19 
 2015-09-28 = 02:00   EA5DOM   0.475612   -25   0   IM98wn   0.002   EB3FRN   JN01mc   300   19 
 2015-09-28 = 01:48   EA5DOM   0.475612   -24   0   IM98wn   0.002   EB3FRN   JN01mc   300   19 
 2015-09-28 = 01:36   EA5DOM   0.475612   -25   0   IM98wn   0.002   EB3FRN   JN01mc   300   19 
 2015-09-28 = 01:00   EA5DOM   0.475613   -26   0   IM98wn   0.002   EB3FRN   JN01mc   300   19 
 2015-09-27 = 23:12   EA5DOM   0.475613   -25   0   IM98wn   0.002   EB3FRN   JN01mc   300   19 
 2015-09-27 = 22:48   EA5DOM   0.475613   -26   0   IM98wn   0.002   EB3FRN   JN01mc   300   19 
 2015-09-27 = 22:36   EA5DOM   0.475613   -26   0   IM98wn   0.002   EB3FRN   JN01mc   300   19 
 2015-09-27 = 21:24   EA5DOM   0.475613   -27   0   IM98wn   0.002   EB3FRN   JN01mc   300   19 
 2015-09-27 = 18:48   EA5DOM   0.475617   -25   0   IM98wn   0.002   EB3FRN   JN01mc   300   19 

Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep = Search=20 -36 dB1489.0 Hz

Hi=20 Graham
 
The answer=20 is ... QRO :)
 
I'm running the 100w PA made by Fausto IK4NMF. Not = big signal=20 increase in local (7km) decodes but
clear=20 difference at 300Km as seen by EB3FRN
 
After=20 improving loop matching, PA works at full power. Fortunately = Opera8=20 keeps the PA almost cold
while a=20 single WSPR-2 period is a real stress test. Loop match is=20 still far from perfect and stressing
full power=20 modes are not wellcome with this setup 
 
As Stefan told, = keeping the=20 loop tuned is an endless task and not the way to go for=20 QRO/Dx
Even worse for = a flat=20 horizontal loop like mine
 
Next in the = list is going=20 vertical. Coil and variometer on the way. Keep tuned = ;-)
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM
 
 Audacity  of it , in board daylight =   as=20 well
 
These are all  well  above the  Dynamic switch = over level=20 , Q question  for the  propagation dep't  , = what's =20 changed ?
local decode  levels  still  -5/-6 dB  , but=20 that  path is  upto  6 dB  less attenuation [ = opera >=20 dynamic  s/n still  average  and  same = calibration]
 
73-G,

14:32 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 -28 dB F:11% in MONTBRIO 1482.9=20 Hz

14:20 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 -27 dB F:8% in MONTBRIO 1482.7=20 Hz

14:08 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 -29 dB F:8% in MONTBRIO 1482.9=20 Hz

13:56 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 186 mi -28 dB F:8% in MONTBRIO = 1482.4 Hz

13:56 477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 4 mi -6 dB F:14% in Albir 1479,5=20 Hz

12:44 477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 -5 dB F:9% in Albir 1479,5 Hz

12:44 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 -30 dB F:13% in MONTBRIO 1482.7=20 Hz


From: Iban Cardona =
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 1:08 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep = Search=20 -36 dB1489.0 Hz

Hi, Graham=20

copying to G6AVK too, with nice signals

23:05    477 G6AVK Op8 1503.9 Hz -25 dB Fade: = 2%

I attach a pict from my grabber where can see EA5DOM and G6AVK at = the=20 same time


73! Iban
eb3frn



On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 2:00 AM, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
True Luis  , just like  just like  VW = 'crazy'=20 code  :- )
 
 Good signals  in the  night  to  = EB3FRM=20 !
 
73-G,

EA5DOM de SWL-EB3FRN (Spain): Op8 F:25% -28 dB in = MONTBRIO=20 1489.0 Hz

EA5DOM de SWL-EB3FRN (Spain): Op8 F:12% -32 dB in = MONTBRIO=20 1488.5 Hz

 

Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2015 4:18 PM
Subject: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep = Search -36=20 dB1489.0 Hz

You catched me Graham ! ;-)

Running the horizontal loop again. Better matching to the PA = than=20 before, but only 8W now

I have continued Txing WSPR and Opera8 during daylight hours. = Nothing=20 on WSPR-2 at EB3FRN
but Opera is decodable at Deep Search. Turned on my monitor to = confirm=20 the spots and then
the Deep Search spots marked as "??" go without question = marks

12:59    477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -34 dB = in=20 MONTBRIO 1488.8 Hz
12:58    477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 -5 dB F:13% in=20 Albir
12:35    477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search ?? -36 = dB in=20 MONTBRIO 1488.8 Hz
12:23    477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search ?? -36 = dB in=20 MONTBRIO 1488.8 Hz
11:59    477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search ?? -35 = dB in=20 MONTBRIO 1488.8 Hz

Big difference over WSPR-2 and even taking in consideration the = higer=20 QRM at EB3FRN
during daylight hours

73 de Luis
EA5DOM
De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] en nombre de = Graham=20 [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk]
Enviado: = s=C3=A1bado, 26 de=20 septiembre de 2015 1:40
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: = LF: 23:35=20 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB1489.0 = Hz

Jump=20 in Opera activity to  day ,  with excellent conditions on =  =20 14 MHz  UK/EU<>VK  


LF/MF - Note the =  PSK=20 map  ONLY shows  opera  data  decodes , Dynamic = spots=20 are  routed via the  Opera APP 


Good=20 demonstration of running a local ' Rx  on LF and MF  by = EA5DOM ,=20 only reaching EB3FRN in Dynamic , but validated by the local off air = time=20 stamp and recovered average frequency , within 200 mHz , -36 dB is = about the=20  lower limit for  op8D


23:35=20    477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB1489.0 = Hz

23:34=20    477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 -5 dB F:1%_End in Albir

23:23 477 EA5DOM = de EB3FRN=20 Op8 Deep Search -36 dB in1488.8 Hz

23:22=20 477 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 -5 dB F:1%_End in Albir
23:11 477 = EA5DOM de=20 EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB in MONTBRIO 1488.8 Hz
23:10 = 477=20 EA5DOM de EA5DOM-1 Op8 -5 dB F:2% in Albir


Dynamic=20 spots not  showing 


21:24=20    136 RN3AGC de G3XDV Op32 Deep Search -42 dB in Welwyn = 1535.8=20 Hz

20:42=20    136 G3XDV de EW6BN Op32 Deep Search 1204 mi -42=20 dB 

20:37=20    136 IZ7SLZ de SV8RV-4 Op32 Deep Search -41 dB 

20:37=20    136 IZ7SLZ de G4WGT Op32 Deep Search -42 dB 

20:37=20    136 IZ7SLZ de SV8RV-1 Op32 Deep Search -42 d

 

73-G,



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