Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DE4EF380000E6; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:37:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1U7Wlm-0007KR-A8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:52:58 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1U7Wll-0007KI-L7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:52:57 +0000 Received: from nm1-vm0.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([212.82.108.94]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1U7Wlj-0001jd-1o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:52:56 +0000 Received: from [212.82.108.231] by nm1.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2013 19:52:33 -0000 Received: from [77.238.189.17] by tm4.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2013 19:52:33 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp817.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2013 19:52:33 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1361217153; bh=s9fQI2a8YCJd+lE75sRee/Z7N16kVzXZ2clGyOxM77M=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:From:To:References:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:Thread-Index; b=wwt8l9Xzt0Ulk8i/1Y3DKNhk14O7IXB/iF/NCgwX4d3RLu14W0OKlRnQZH5+nyA8Dx6VRai30FOAMQQOXm7eKc9LmrITlbG7IWaFEK/X+rIYoO3zlzZhODueUsvFe+bzIttDSBoIAZNaaE6aokz9IFBgUg2POSyNjKIZD+5K4do= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 646077.29419.bm@smtp817.mail.ird.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: SF7baKsVM1nb65BhyIL4ZKIRUSEtRNcIjiKO91B7tgpcw8s k9A9r87PzkuY6dBSYZ5yXaXlTh9kukBRoypdy1WdQfzV9Nc7DEsAJ12UyngT a_AqbNBTGLCKOZux_KilY1597TxuoyRxR2yDT57DgKk4_c.rXWdqJYN690kt _DozaCfg9.5HenCrGSf.A0uDCLJW8gNP5m5QuzVvhWXqFXmKZ.JadxMWk38f s5P8HS5KGkn2uYLvd7kMg230BBby94RnINFeR8KbbGIZvQSL4KMyOcLx9w4B MF8_n5XKQ8FxD_..lfjB7EovQwJmT6FoRiN8D.j5rtNCjyWMtV_kpZjIaobZ QKZijF.aYa8HX9KXxW13MRZVvFMkesgAP6s8e7oAy.hFAUBvivgDKrKqSESm szRLYJigSaf6WMNws6QLjmmwDWQh_FIPZBw2SeifvUFrMoLJFP6.Jt4ZGMNs e9_WCl_MR0meZ.g-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: 9Y6mUHuswBAgnrOsukIiNdFDf95uy_Dz34nY1hlg2liKgYD952sjbg-- Received: from lindavideo (ken.h.wright@86.151.96.9 with login) by smtp817.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2013 19:52:33 +0000 GMT From: "Ken" To: References: <01c201ce0df6$fca68350$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <01d001ce0df7$ec018990$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <3751D15C489E45289657A49A3266CF42@AGB> <021701ce0e05$1f0acd30$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:52:33 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 In-Reply-To: <021701ce0e05$1f0acd30$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Thread-Index: Ac4OBVVbXo8B/Dc2TvKCvc3dbcjhgQAC6Gsg X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Mal. It would be very nice to have a 60ft vertical, you would not obtain permission where I live, 3m is the max without planning permission. Ken M0KHW [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.82.108.94 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines X-Scan-Signature: b23fd5b4ffade02088955ccf87364d84 Subject: RE: LF: Re: POOR ANTENNAS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0064_01CE0E11.7E8DD3E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1da605512290fe6694 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01CE0E11.7E8DD3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mal. It would be very nice to have a 60ft vertical, you would not obtain permission where I live, 3m is the max without planning permission. Ken M0KHW _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 18 February 2013 18:24 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: POOR ANTENNAS Graham It is all inter related. But a few fundamentals are necessary. If it is so bad with for instance a 24 dB disadvantage I would MOVE or pack it in. Too many excuses are used, the amateur has enough space for a reasonable antenna but says he is concerned about what the neighbours might think. I have heard this so many times. How much space does a 60 ft vertical take up, less than half a sq metre. Surely when a radio amateur is looking for a property he has antennas in mind and looks for the largest real estate he can afford. especially if interested in MF or LF. So wspr is totally dependent on the Receive operator ? and a vy quiet location. I thought the whole idea was to overcome this problem It is not working, as I said looking at the wspr database, some stns are not even aware that others are active because of lack of signal for what ever reason. mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:01 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: POOR ANTENNAS May be , may be not Mal The system is reading the s/n at the Rx and not the field strength ........ depends on the local noise level , rst 159 or 599 , carrier still S9 , 1= qrm 5= no qrm From: mal hamilton Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:49 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: POOR ANTENNAS Example I am receiving PA3EGO + 2dB another UK stn is showing -22 at a shorter distance. A difference of 24 dB and this station says he is an Expert!! ----- Original Message ----- From: mal hamilton To: rsgb Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:42 PM Subject: LF: POOR ANTENNAS MF One thing the wspr DB shows is how poor some Receivers/Antennas are comparing like with like approximately same distances from Transmitter. g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01CE0E11.7E8DD3E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Mal.

It would be very nice to have a = 60ft vertical, you would not obtain permission where I live, 3m is the max = without planning permission.

 

Ken   = M0KHW

 

From: = owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal = hamilton
Sent: 18 February 2013 = 18:24
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: POOR = ANTENNAS

 

Graham

It is all inter related. But a few fundamentals are necessary. If it is so bad with for instance a 24 dB disadvantage I = would MOVE or pack it in.

Too many excuses are used, the amateur has enough = space for a reasonable antenna but says he is concerned about what the neighbours = might think. I have heard this so many times. How much space does a 60 ft = vertical take up, less than half a sq metre.

Surely when a radio amateur is looking for a property = he has antennas in mind and looks for the largest real estate he can = afford.

especially if interested in MF or LF. =

So wspr is totally dependent on the Receive operator = ? and a vy quiet location. I thought the whole idea was to overcome this = problem

It is not working, as I said looking at the wspr = database, some stns are not even aware that others are active because of lack of = signal for what ever reason.

mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Graham

Sent: Monday, = February 18, 2013 5:01 PM

Subject: Re: LF: = Re: POOR ANTENNAS

 

May be , may be not  Mal

 

The system is  reading  the  s/n   at the  Rx   and  not the   field  = strength ........  depends on the  local  noise level = ,   rst   159  or  599  , carrier  still  S9  ,   1=3D qrm     5=3D no  = qrm

From: mal hamilton

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:49 PM

Subject: LF: Re: POOR ANTENNAS

 

Example

I am receiving PA3EGO + 2dB another = UK = stn is showing -22 at a shorter distance. A difference of 24 = dB

and this station says he is an Expert!! =

 

 

----- Original Message ----- =

From: mal hamilton

To: rsgb

Sent: Monday, = February 18, 2013 4:42 PM

Subject: LF: = POOR ANTENNAS

 

MF

One thing the wspr DB shows is how poor some Receivers/Antennas are comparing like with like approximately same = distances from Transmitter.

 

g3kev

 

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