Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dc03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E455038000082; Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1TBvy2-0001FV-1v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:03:34 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1TBvy1-0001FM-BE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:03:33 +0100 Received: from smtpout5.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.80] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TBvxy-000575-Ti for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:03:32 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.22.87]) by mwinf5d64 with ME id yP3U1j0051skBk203P3V8Y; Thu, 13 Sep 2012 01:03:29 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <7BC98E57810B4E9DBE3F6FF425538CFE@inspiron> In-Reply-To: <7BC98E57810B4E9DBE3F6FF425538CFE@inspiron> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:03:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Yes Lee, I remember the project , looks very well made , bit of a tom-tit over the 500 to 477 migration , will the filters re-tune ? I have seen 7 MHz AM stations in the usa using eer as high level modulation , with e/d amps , I think most high power broadcast sw use this system as well now ? ...mobile phones use it for envelope shaping ...... there was a page of links on the uk500khz group [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.80 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: ed6345c6c2cc01794735642a3a63420e Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_017F_01CD9143.342E2C50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d4083505114f61220 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_017F_01CD9143.342E2C50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes Lee, I remember the project , looks very well made , bit of a = tom-tit over the 500 to 477 migration , will the filters = re-tune ? I have seen 7 MHz AM stations in the usa using eer as high = level modulation , with e/d amps , I think most high power = broadcast sw use this system as well now ? ...mobile phones use = it for envelope shaping ...... there was a page of links on the = uk500khz group =20 IMD / s/n levels -35 dB maximum ? which is not bad ....ssb .. may = be IMD rises as the power o/p decreases ? G. From: Lee Hudson=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:40 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK Hi Graham, All, I made an EER PA and Transverter to 3.5MHz for use on 500kHz based on = Jim's first design. And I'm sure there are a few others about. First prototype of Class D PA https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15400416/IMGP0336.JPG 3.5MHz to 500kHz Transverter with Phase and Envelope outputs to PA https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15400416/IMGP0371.JPG Switchable 50 or 200W EER PA with automatic protection https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15400416/IMGP0415.JPG LPF and TX/RX Relay https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15400416/IMGP0414.JPG Final Trio https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15400416/IMGP0385.JPG Works a treat on all the usual modes and is even quite respectable on = SSB. 90% efficient on full output.=20 Stefan's attempt at a switched mode envelope supply sounds interesting, = and a nice way to get mid power efficiency up. 73, Lee M0LMH. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham Sent: 12 September 2012 17:45 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK Jim M0BMU =20 Published a design and made a working system ........ he also = eliminated the need for a complicated drive by using = complimentary out put devices ... I don't know who else made such = a thing .... ?=20 G.. =20 PS :: I vote for Jims design ! =20 From: Clemens Paul=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:31 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk=20 Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK >You can use a class E/D amp in linear , with envelope = restoration , that maintains the efficiency , s/n >imd is = about 35 dB .=20 To my knowledge the first description in amateur literature of an EER (envelope elimination and restauration) PA (400W) was by DJ7AW in = CQ-DL 4/2001. It's still in service. I have the article as pdf (in German) and can send it to anyone = interested in building such a PA which is not an easy task.Therefore,as far as I know, only two such = PAs have been built. One by DJ7AW and one in South America (Joe?).=20 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:17 PM Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK Mal, Things have moved on a bit=20 You can use a class E/D amp in linear , with envelope = restoration , that maintains the efficiency , s/n imd is about = 35 dB .=20 The Op structure allows for up to 50% loss of signal randomly = along the time line , ie first 50% , last 50% or randomly = distributed=20 Problem with short burst is the 'average energy' level , like a = radar , huge KW peak powers but only watts average power .....and = yes , wide bandwidth . Detecting a carrier is one thing .. to recover data is a much = more difficult thing and requires a higher level of energy=20 G.. =20 Virendatenbank: 2437/5264 - Ausgabedatum: 12.09.2012=20 ------=_NextPart_000_017F_01CD9143.342E2C50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes Lee,   I remember  the  project  = ,=20 looks  very well  made , bit of a  tom-tit  over = the =20 500 to 477   migration  , will  the  = filters =20 re-tune ?
 
 I  have  seen   7 MHz  = AM  =20 stations  in the  usa using  eer  as  = high =20 level  modulation , with  e/d amps  ,  I think  = most  high power  broadcast     sw  use = this =20 system as  well  now ? ...mobile phones  use it  for = envelope  shaping ...... there  was a  page of = links  on=20 the  uk500khz  group 
 
IMD / s/n levels   -35 dB   maximum ? which = is =20 not  bad ....ssb .. may  be  IMD rises  as the  = power=20 o/p  decreases  ?
 
G.

From: Lee Hudson
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:40 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: RE: LF: Fw: LOST TRACK

Hi Graham,=20 All,

 

I made an EER = PA and=20 Transverter to 3.5MHz for use on 500kHz based on Jim=92s first=20 design.

And I=92m = sure there are=20 a few others about.

 

First = prototype of=20 Class D PA

https://dl.dropbo= x.com/u/15400416/IMGP0336.JPG

 

3.5MHz to = 500kHz=20 Transverter with Phase and Envelope outputs to PA

https://dl.dropbo= x.com/u/15400416/IMGP0371.JPG

 

Switchable 50 = or 200W=20 EER PA with automatic protection

https://dl.dropbo= x.com/u/15400416/IMGP0415.JPG

 

LPF and TX/RX = Relay

https://dl.dropbo= x.com/u/15400416/IMGP0414.JPG

 

Final=20 Trio

https://dl.dropbo= x.com/u/15400416/IMGP0385.JPG

 

Works a treat = on all=20 the usual modes and is even quite respectable on SSB.

90% efficient = on full=20 output.

 

Stefan=92s = attempt at a=20 switched mode envelope supply sounds interesting, and a nice way to get = mid=20 power efficiency up.

 

73, Lee=20 M0LMH.

 

 

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]=20 On Behalf Of = Graham
Sent: 12 September 2012 = 17:45
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Fw: LOST=20 TRACK

 

Jim = M0BMU  =20

 

Published  = a =20 design  and  made a working  system  ........  = he =20 also  eliminated the  need  for  a=20 complicated   drive  by using  = complimentary   out=20 put  devices  ... I don't know  who else  made such = a=20 thing .... ?

 

G.. =20

 

PS ::  I = vote =20 for  Jims  design   !  =

 

From: Clemens Paul=20

Sent:=20 Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:31 PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Cc: rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups= .co.uk=20

Subject: Re: LF:=20 Fw: LOST TRACK

 

>You  can  = use a =20 class  E/D    amp  in linear , with =20 envelope  restoration  , that  maintains  the =20 efficiency  , s/n   >imd   is =20 about   35 dB .

 

To my knowledge the first=20 description in amateur literature of an

EER (envelope elimination = and=20 restauration) PA (400W) was by DJ7AW in CQ-DL = 4/2001.

It's still in=20 service.

I have the article as=20 pdf  (in German) and can send it to anyone interested in = building=20 such

a PA which is not an easy=20 task.Therefore,as far as I know, only two such PAs have been=20 built.

One by DJ7AW and = one in South=20 America (Joe?). 

 

 

73
Clemens
DL4RAJ

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Graham=20

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Sent:=20 Wednesday, September 12, 2012 5:17 PM

Subject: Re: LF:=20 Fw: LOST TRACK

 

Mal,

 

Things  = have =20 moved on a bit

 

You  = can  use=20 a  class  E/D    amp  in linear , = with =20 envelope  restoration  , that  maintains  = the =20 efficiency  , s/n   imd   is =20 about   35 dB .

 

The  Op = structure=20 allows for  up to  50% loss  of  = signal  =20 randomly  along the  time  line , ie  first 50% ,=20 last  50% or  randomly  distributed =

 

Problem = with  short=20 burst is the  'average energy' level  , like a  = radar  ,=20 huge KW peak  powers  but  only  watts  = average power=20 .....and  yes  , wide  bandwidth = .

 

Detecting  a=20 carrier  is one thing  .. to  recover  data is a=20 much  more difficult  thing and requires  a = higher  level=20 of energy

 

G..

 


 

 Virendatenbank: = 2437/5264 -=20 Ausgabedatum: 12.09.2012=20

------=_NextPart_000_017F_01CD9143.342E2C50--