Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t7MJ8IlG019340 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 21:08:18 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ZTE62-0007cV-Fk for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 20:04:54 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ZTE5t-0007cM-Vc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 20:04:45 +0100 Received: from smtp206.alice.it ([82.57.200.102]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ZTE4r-0006K9-MH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 20:04:44 +0100 Received: from PCFausto (87.16.53.248) by smtp206.alice.it (8.6.060.28) id 55BB65F904676DD4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 21:03:26 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Fausto Coletti" To: References: <0LbuCq-1Z0UCd0iGK-00jKxe@mail.gmx.com> <55D718E5.8040508@posteo.de> <0FB4BC4D-1000-44F8-8855-C4B1B19CDDE8@talktalk.net> <4A6A0C74F3624CCC93FC660782555B89@PCFausto> <7E0C3B8C81574BB3B57589D478E1C624@White> <5F6B6655E6EE4158B1F8C069925EC860@White> In-Reply-To: <5F6B6655E6EE4158B1F8C069925EC860@White> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 21:03:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 X-Scan-Signature: 9b3cb5ded5bc3cc2be753ea8a581909e Subject: Re: LF: Re: Band is open to VK! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01D0DD1D.FA8DC710" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3950 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01D0DD1D.FA8DC710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Marcus,=20 I understand that it is hard to believe as the means at his disposal = could have received that signal in 1901,=20 but a year later he repeated the experiment with the same devices, = perhaps a little optimized but not very=20 different, this time with several witnesses.=20 The sound of a spark gap transmitter received with a mercury Coherer on = a earphone is a buzz, as the sound of a diode detector.=20 However a metal powder Coherer It is not suitable to receive sounds in a = headset, he begins to conduct=20 when crossed by an electromagnetic field and continues to conduct until = you give him a hit.=20 For this reason it was used with a Morse tape machine and in series with = the circuit there was an electromagnet=20 with a little hammer that was used to strike the Coherer each character = received.=20 I am currently collaborating with the Guglielmo Marconi Foundation to = repeat some experiments from the first=20 transmission of 1895 with the replica of original equipment, trying to = measure what was actually the energy=20 radiated by a spark gap transmitter and, what could be the effective = sensitivity of the detectors available=20 at the end of the 19th century.=20 73, Fausto ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 8:02 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: Band is open to VK! Hi Fausto, don't get me wrong - I'm in no way opposed to, or trying to diminish = Marconi's work, which was indeed revolutionary at his time. I just find = it hard to believe that he actually received the famous three dots on MF = at the time in 1901.=20 Thanks for the link to the TV documentary. Around minute 28, the = soundtrack lets us hear a real WOW signal, beautiful and convincing = triple knocks. But would the sound of a coherer really have been like = that? Fortunately Edgar's LF receiver in Tasmania seems is not much hampered = by man made QRM, his nighttime noise floor seems to be dominated = primarily by natural static background. All the best, Markus=20 From: Fausto Coletti=20 Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 7:11 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Band is open to VK! I know these documents and I know also how many detractors there have = been and there are against the work of Guglielmo Marconi.=20 Now I'm not here to say if in December 1901 Marconi succeeded or not = in his attempt, I'm convinced of it, the fact is that a year later=20 he successfully repeated the experiment with the same equipment, in = front of numerous witnesses and people sent by his opponents.=20 On this there is no doubt.=20 As there is no doubt that all those who were opposed to Marconi = claiming to be able to transmit a telegraphic signal before him,=20 when Marconi transmitted and receive to two or three hundred = kilometers away, they were unable to to receive a signal to a hundred = meters.=20 Here a documentary made by a German broadcaster few years ago:=20 = http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/video/1211142/Das-unsichtbare-Netz= #/beitrag/video/1211142/Das-unsichtbare-Netz=20 This is one of the best documentaries I have ever seen and probably = the closest to historical truth.=20 @ Stefan DK7FC=20 It is true that in 1901 there was the noise created by the man who = today is present but, the noise generated by Mother Nature was also at = that time.=20 Now I do not know what could be the relationship between the = sensitivity of Marconi receiver in the 1901 environment, and a modern = receiver with the noise of today.=20 I recently tested some nickel powder Coherer for a historical events = which we are organizing for next month and I assure you that a = carpenter's tack is more sensitive :-)=20 73, Fausto=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 6:07 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: Band is open to VK! Hi Fausto, LF, >> do not forget that in 1901 Guglielmo Marconi received a signal = across the Atlantic at a frequency around 500 kHz=20 ...did he really? I think there is some doubt around this story. = With a coherer, it would be very hard to prove the difference between = receiving a signal consisting of just three dots, and false triggering = by random statics. Considering a situation where a success was badly = needed, the reception may well have been the result of wishful thinking. = http://www.antiquewireless.org/uploads/1/6/1/2/16129770/45-did_marconi_re= ceive_transatlantic_radio_signals_in_1901.pdf = http://www.antiquewireless.org/uploads/1/6/1/2/16129770/46-did_marconi_re= ceive_transatlantic_radio_signals_in_1901.pdf Today we'd simply say "show us the screenshot" ;-) Best 73, Markus From: Fausto Coletti=20 Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 9:59 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Band is open to VK! :-)) I have a 8 motor drone but can fly only 20 minutes with one Kg = payload.=20 A kite or baloon is better.=20 Seriously speaking, the difficulties are very big, as rightly says = Stefan 160 meters band, has a very different behavior but, do not forget = that in 1901 Guglielmo Marconi received a signal across the Atlantic at = a frequency around 500 kHz and with a receiver that in comparison with = those of today was a tack. Ok were "only" 3500 Km.=20 Today what are we doing more with our ultramodern equipment?=20 Today we have SDR, filters, DSP, noise reducer, Marconi at Signal = Hill had a drop of mercury.=20 Today obtain a considerable power is relatively easy and = inexpensive,=20 114 years ago there were only Ruhmkorff coils then, how much power = was actually radiated=20 no one ever taken the trouble to measure it.=20 But as they did then my compatriot to get those great results: = trying, trying and trying again trying to improve something every day.=20 The important thing is to think that nothing is impossible, maybe = improbable but not impossible.=20 Tonight I bored with the history of telegraphy...:-)=20 73, Fausto IK4NMF=20 ... Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2015.0.6125 / Database dei virus: 4392/10484 - Data di = rilascio: 22/08/2015 Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2015.0.6125 / Database dei virus: 4392/10484 - Data di = rilascio: 22/08/2015 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01D0DD1D.FA8DC710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Marcus,
 
I = understand that it is hard to believe = as the means at his=20 disposal could have=20 received that signal in=20 1901,
but a=20 year later he repeated the=20 experiment with the = same=20 devices, perhaps=20 a little optimized but not=20 very
different, this time = with=20 several witnesses. =
 
The sound of a spark gap = transmitter=20 received with a mercury Coherer on a earphone is a=20 buzz, as the sound of a diode detector.=20
However=20 a metal powder Coherer = It is=20 not suitable to receive sounds in a headset, he begins to conduct=20
when = crossed by an electromagnetic = field=20 and continues to = conduct until you give him a hit.
For this reason=20 it was used with a=20 Morse tape machine and=20 in series with the circuit there was an electromagnet=20
with a little hammer that = was used to strike the Coherer each character=20 received.
 
I am currently = collaborating with the=20 Guglielmo Marconi Foundation to=20 repeat some experiments from=20 the first=20
transmission of 1895 with the replica of original equipment, trying to = measure what was actually the=20 energy
radiated by a spark gap transmitter and, what could be the = effective=20 sensitivity of the = detectors available =
at the = end of the 19th century.=20
 
73,=20 Fausto
 
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 = 8:02=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Band is = open to=20 VK!

Hi Fausto,
 
don't get me wrong - I'm in no way = opposed to,=20 or trying to diminish Marconi's work, which was indeed = revolutionary=20 at his time. I just find it = hard to=20 believe that he actually received the famous three dots on MF at = the time=20 in 1901.
 
Thanks for the link to the TV = documentary.=20 Around minute 28, the soundtrack lets us hear a real WOW signal,=20 beautiful and convincing triple knocks. But would the sound of a = coherer=20 really have been like that?
 
Fortunately Edgar's LF receiver in = Tasmania seems=20 is not much hampered by man made QRM, his nighttime noise = floor=20 seems to be dominated primarily by natural static = background.
 
All the best,
Markus 
 
 

Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Band is open to VK!

I know = these documents and I know also how many detractors there = have=20 been and there are against the=20 work of Guglielmo Marconi.
Now=20 I'm not here to say = if in December=20 1901 Marconi succeeded=20 or not in his=20 attempt, I'm convinced of it, the fact is = that=20 a year later=20
he=20 successfully repeated the=20 experiment with the = same=20 equipment, in front of = numerous witnesses and people sent=20 by his opponents.=20
On=20 this there is no doubt.=20
As there is no doubt that all those who were opposed to Marconi = claiming to be able to = transmit a telegraphic=20 signal before him,=20
when Marconi transmitted and receive to two = or=20 three hundred kilometers=20 away, they were unable to to=20 receive a signal to a hundred meters. =
Here a documentary=20 made by a German broadcaster few=20 years ago:=20
 
http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/video/1211142/Das-uns= ichtbare-Netz#/beitrag/video/1211142/Das-unsichtbare-Netz 
 
This is one of the=20 best documentaries I = have=20 ever seen and = probably the closest to = historical=20 truth.
 
@ = Stefan DK7FC=20
 
It is true that=20 in 1901 there was = the noise created by the man = who today is present = but,=20 the noise generated by = Mother=20 Nature was also at that time.=20
Now I do not know what=20 could be the relationship between = the sensitivity of Marconi receiver in = the 1901=20 environment, and a modern = receiver with the=20 noise of today.=20
I recently tested some nickel powder Coherer = for a historical=20 events which we are organizing for next month = and I assure you that a carpenter's tack = is more sensitive :-)=20
&nbs= p;
73, Fausto=20
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Saturday, August 22, = 2015 6:07=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Band is = open to=20 VK!

Hi Fausto,=20 LF,
 
>> do=20 not forget that in 1901 Guglielmo Marconi = received a signal across the Atlantic at a=20 frequency around 500 kHz
 
...did he = really? I think=20 there is some doubt around this story. With a coherer, it would be = very hard=20 to prove the difference between receiving a signal = consisting of=20 just three dots, and false triggering by random = statics. Considering a=20 situation where a success was badly needed, the = reception may=20 well have been the result of wishful thinking.
 
http://www.antique= wireless.org/uploads/1/6/1/2/16129770/45-did_marconi_receive_transatlanti= c_radio_signals_in_1901.pdf
http://www.antique= wireless.org/uploads/1/6/1/2/16129770/46-did_marconi_receive_transatlanti= c_radio_signals_in_1901.pdf
 
Today we'd simply say "show us the = screenshot"=20 ;-)
 
Best = 73,
Markus
 

Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 9:59 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Band is open to = VK!

:-)) I have a 8 motor drone but can = fly=20 only 20 minutes with one Kg payload.
A kite or baloon is better. =
Seriously=20 speaking, the difficulties = are=20 very big, as=20 rightly says Stefan=20 160 meters band, has a very=20 different behavior but, = do not forget that in = 1901 Guglielmo Marconi = received a signal across the Atlantic at a=20 frequency around 500 kHz and with=20 a receiver that in = comparison=20 with those of today was a tack. Ok = were "only" 3500 Km.=20
Today what are we doing more=20 with our ultramodern equipment? =
Today we have = SDR, filters,=20 DSP, noise reducer, Marconi at=20 Signal Hill had a drop of mercury. =
Today obtain=20 a considerable power is=20 relatively easy and inexpensive,=20
114 years ago there were = only Ruhmkorff coils = then, how much = power=20 was actually radiated =
no one ever taken = the trouble=20 to measure it.=20
But as they = did then my compatriot=20 to get those great results: trying, trying and trying again trying to improve something = every day. =
The important = thing is to think that nothing is=20 impossible, maybe=20 improbable but=20 not impossible.=20
Tonight I bored with the=20 history of telegraphy...:-)=20 =
&nbs= p;
73, Fausto IK4NMF=20
...
=

Nessun virus nel=20 messaggio.
Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com
Versione: 2015.0.6125 = /=20 Database dei virus: 4392/10484 - Data di rilascio:=20 22/08/2015

Nessun virus nel=20 messaggio.
Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com
Versione: 2015.0.6125 / = Database=20 dei virus: 4392/10484 - Data di rilascio:=20 22/08/2015

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