Delivered-To: daveyxm@virginmedia.com Received: by 10.50.237.98 with SMTP id vb2csp8022igc; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 09:39:20 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.180.77.200 with SMTP id u8mr2240042wiw.48.1394300359888; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 09:39:19 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com. [195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id p3si14131263wjw.95.2014.03.08.09.39.18 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 09:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=fail (test mode) header.i=@btinternet.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WMKz4-0005bw-Km for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 17:24:26 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WMKz3-0005bn-Pj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 17:24:25 +0000 Received: from smtpout01.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk ([65.20.0.121]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WMKz0-00063m-E7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 17:24:24 +0000 X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A090203.531B5244.021E,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=14/97,refid=2.7.2:2014.3.8.120618:17:14.492,ip=,rules=__HAS_MSGID, __SANE_MSGID, MSGID_32HEX_LC, INVALID_MSGID_NO_FQDN, __MSGID_32HEX, __HAS_FROM, __PHISH_FROM2, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL_FROM, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY, __CTYPE_MULTIPART, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __ANY_URI, __FRAUD_BODY_WEBMAIL, __CP_MEDIA_BODY, __INT_PROD_MP3, __CP_URI_IN_BODY, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE, SUPERLONG_LINE, __HTML_FONT_BLUE, __HAS_HTML, BODY_SIZE_10000_PLUS, __MIME_HTML, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML, __STYLE_RATWARE_NEG, __URI_NS, HTML_90_100, HTML_95_100, HTML_98_100, HTML_99_100, __PHISH_FROM, __OUTLOOK_MUA, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Received: from gnat (86.178.175.13) by smtpout01.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (8.6.100.99.10223) (authenticated as alan.melia@btinternet.com) id 53184AF90010C13E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 17:24:20 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1394299462; bh=WKMV/K26JF0qIrykVMJa9fj/R+N08WaKTGML4Pm6TW0=; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer; b=OHKq4v59YpHXvlO/IJRRtWypXEUvULlcqTq9yJJ9H9oTjW0qnKTHPFc/PBNQaFXYKPJWk1xXBVJGWUPWt5mpfANk/KfNxdhPKpMO3MI6POwau/7ZAn1nBwDuxy0QGkLb89p1A/WZ2aeL24ZlsofHRmUeASVPHsxAUUejoEnxpd4= Message-ID: From: "Alan Melia" To: References: <2662DF5AA7FA416CBB09CDB90BBFF7B1@White> <016101cf39df$4f4c89a0$ede59ce0$@comcast.net>, <01dc01cf3a3f$86997bb0$93cc7310$@comcast.net>, <2FC5CAB271A6437CB35A5B100185CEDA@White> <025101cf3a52$e0925750$a1b705f0$@comcast.net> <7DB9DD5669FC4C648838510DCAC08AFB@White> <75EE50F214B04B68990F70FD19D33FC9@gnat> <000b01cf3ad5$8ff2c1d0$6401a8c0@JAYDELL> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 17:06:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Jay, yes a quick check on the Dst does not show a drop until late on the 25th (then only to -40nT) which is too late to enhance the SAQ transmissions. There are lots of reasons for variability. I have just seen an article mentioning changes in "transparency" due to "acoustic" waves in the ionosphere. This may only apply to much higher frequencies but I need to buckle down and try and understand the effect, and see whether there is any relevance to LF/VLF [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.20.0.121 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 1c9013e8bbe5a838808a955a10faa99b Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Daytime 29.499 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01CF3AF0.CAE5BED0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CF3AF0.CAE5BED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jay, yes a quick check on the Dst does not show a drop until late on = the 25th (then only to -40nT) which is too late to enhance the SAQ = transmissions. There are lots of reasons for variability. I have just = seen an article mentioning changes in "transparency" due to "acoustic" = waves in the ionosphere. This may only apply to much higher frequencies = but I need to buckle down and try and understand the effect, and see = whether there is any relevance to LF/VLF Some Great Work going on!! Best Wishes Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: jrusgrove@comcast.net=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 1:51 PM Subject: LF: Re: Re: Daytime 29.499 kHz Alan Thanks for weighing in.=20 FWIW, the best receptions of SAQ 17.2 kHz at this location (up until = the most recent 12/24/13) have occured during their 'late' vs. 'early' = session which puts the receiving end well into daylight ... and summer = reception has been generally better than winter.=20 The most recent reception on 12/24/13 was noticeably out of the = ordinary as the best ever s/n was noted. A short unprocessed mp3 is at:=20 http://www.w1vd.com/SAQ122413.mp3=20 Looking through the archives it appears there were several M class = flares on the days leading up to the transmission. This latest reception = might make a good 'case study' for someone with the right capabilities.=20 Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 WG2XRS/2 =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Melia=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 6:54 PM Subject: LF: Re: Daytime 29.499 kHz Hi Markus this dome shape, peaking at mid-day at mid-path, is very = clear on all LF and VLF plots, and yes it does get better in summer!! = Also I have found that daytime mid-day levels are enhanced for a day and = sometimes two days after a geomagnetic storm, due I think to the extra = electron density in the D-layer from precipitated "hot" = electrons.....being hot they take longer to decay than photo-dissociated = electrons even at 50km altitude. The daytime enhancement can be as much = as 6dB after a Geomag storm, useful but not as much as to give similar = levels as night-time. The "waveguide" is also narrower in daytime, so = the signal contact the lossy region more often. We have predicted these = on 136 and the effect on short paths was confirmed by John W1TAG and Jay = W1VD. This confirms that "ionosheric-wave" is present in daytime, and at = distance it is not all ground-wave. Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 10:33 PM Subject: LF: Daytime 29.499 kHz Guess this thread needs a new title... Paul's LWPC interface is here: http://abelian.org/lwpc/ It seems that the broad midday maximum appears consistently on = different medium-range VLF paths, also on most 100 kHz Loran-C traces. = Simplistic interpretation: With higher solar elevation, ionisation = penetrates to lower layers and produces a steeper conductivity gradient, = quite in analogy to a metal mirror. However this would predict that = midday reflection would be stronger in summer? Looking forward to Bob's test tomorrow! Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: hvanesce=20 Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:16 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial = Freq... Markus, =20 I'm glad that you suggested a 2-hour time slot (if it works for = Bob). Based on your NAA spectrogram (attached), the window that you're = shooting for may be a multimode interference peak, which might be = shifted (an hour or so?) for a Penn Yan path; and I don't know which = direction in time the window would shift.=20 =20 Paul is doing so many things that I hate to mention this, but I = wonder if LWPC would show the interference peak near 1500 UT; and if so, = which direction in time the peak would shift for the Penn Yan path. =20 I seem to remember that Paul provided an online interface to LWPC, = I'll see if I can find it. =20 73, Jim AA5BW =20 =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Markus Vester Sent: Friday, March 7, 2014 2:45 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial = Freq... =20 Bob,=20 =20 how about a straight carrier on 29.499, from 14 to 16 UT? The = narrow grabbers will be on even if I have to be away. Results may depend = on the qrn situation here (aka Eu weather). =20 73, Markus =20 From: Bob Raide=20 Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 10:29 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial = Freq... =20 Markus; With you home [not at work] tomorrow lets try around that 1500. I = left the signal on two nights ago till 1200 but after 0800 signal was = gone till 2400 next night. =20 What mode and what time you want signal? Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 21:45:19 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial = Freq... Jim, =20 I would think that the main difference between Todmorden and = Nuernberg is that I'm into the sunrise dip an hour earlier. And my noise = background is higher, so I tend to completely lose a weak signal which = Paul would still receive well. =20 Anyway looking at the attached NAA plot I'm sort of perplexed by = the strong propagation during the day. If Bob decided to transmit = sometime around 15 UT, there's a good chance we'd pick it up. =20 Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 ...=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CF3AF0.CAE5BED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jay, yes a quick check on the Dst = does not show=20 a drop until late on the 25th (then only to -40nT) which is too late to = enhance=20 the SAQ transmissions. There are lots of reasons for variability. I have = just=20 seen an article mentioning changes in "transparency" due to "acoustic" = waves in=20 the ionosphere. This may only apply to much higher frequencies but I = need to=20 buckle down and try and understand the effect, and see whether there is = any=20 relevance to LF/VLF
 
Some Great Work going on!!
 
Best Wishes
Alan
G3NYK
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 jrusgrove@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 = 1:51=20 PM
Subject: LF: Re: Re: Daytime = 29.499=20 kHz

Alan
 
Thanks for weighing in.
 
FWIW, the best receptions of SAQ 17.2 = kHz at this=20 location (up until the most recent 12/24/13) have occured during their = 'late'=20 vs. 'early' session which puts the receiving end well into=20 daylight ... and summer reception has been generally better=20 than winter. 
 
The most recent reception on 12/24/13 = was noticeably out of the ordinary as the best ever s/n was = noted. A=20 short unprocessed mp3 is at:
 
http://www.w1vd.com/SAQ122413.= mp3 
 
Looking through the archives it = appears=20 there were several M class flares on the days leading up to the=20 transmission. This latest reception might make a good 'case study' for = someone=20 with the right capabilities. 
 
Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  = WE2XGR/2 =20 WG2XRS/2   
 
  
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Alan Melia
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 = 6:54=20 PM
Subject: LF: Re: Daytime = 29.499=20 kHz

Hi Markus this dome shape, peaking = at mid-day=20 at mid-path, is very clear on all LF and VLF plots, and yes it = does get=20 better in summer!! Also I have found that daytime mid-day levels are = enhanced for a day and sometimes two days after a geomagnetic storm, = due I=20 think to the extra electron density in the D-layer from precipitated = "hot"=20 electrons.....being hot they take longer to decay than = photo-dissociated=20 electrons even at 50km altitude. The daytime enhancement can be as = much as=20 6dB after a Geomag storm, useful but not as much as to give similar = levels=20 as night-time. The "waveguide" is also narrower in daytime, so the = signal=20 contact the lossy region more often. We have predicted these on 136 = and the=20 effect on short paths was confirmed by John W1TAG and Jay W1VD. This = confirms that "ionosheric-wave" is present in daytime, and at = distance it is=20 not all ground-wave.
 
Alan
G3NYK
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Friday, March 07, = 2014 10:33=20 PM
Subject: LF: Daytime 29.499 = kHz

Guess this thread needs a new=20 title...
 
Paul's LWPC interface is here: = http://abelian.org/lwpc/
 
It seems that the broad midday = maximum appears=20 consistently on different medium-range VLF=20 paths, also on most 100 kHz Loran-C traces. Simplistic interpretation: With higher solar = elevation,=20 ionisation penetrates to lower layers and produces = a steeper=20 conductivity gradient, quite in analogy to a metal mirror. However = this=20 would predict that midday reflection would be stronger in=20 summer?
 
Looking forward to Bob's test = tomorrow!
 
Best = 73,
Markus=20 (DF6NM)

From: hvanesce
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:16 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: RE: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on = 27.945 Dial=20 Freq...

Markus,

 

I=92m=20 glad that you suggested a 2-hour time slot (if it works for Bob). = Based on=20 your NAA spectrogram (attached), the window that you=92re shooting = for may=20 be a multimode interference peak, which might be shifted (an hour = or so?)=20 for a Penn Yan path; and I don=92t know which direction in time = the window=20 would shift.

 

Paul=20 is doing so many things that I hate to mention this, but I wonder = if LWPC=20 would show the interference peak near 1500 UT; and if so, which = direction=20 in time the peak would shift for the Penn Yan = path.

 

I=20 seem to remember that Paul provided an online interface to LWPC, = I=92ll see=20 if I can find it.

 

73, =20 Jim AA5BW   

 

From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of = Markus=20 Vester
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2014 2:45 PM
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: New OPERA = OP/OPDS=20 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial = Freq...

 

Bob,=20

 

how = about a=20 straight carrier on 29.499, from 14 to 16 UT? The narrow = grabbers=20 will be on even if I have to be away. Results may depend = on the=20 qrn situation here (aka Eu weather).

 

73,=20 Markus

 

From: Bob Raide=20

Sent: = Friday, March=20 07, 2014 10:29 PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Subject: RE: = LF: New=20 OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial=20 Freq...

 


 Markus;
With you=20 home [not at work] tomorrow lets try around that 1500.  I = left the=20 signal on two nights ago till 1200 but after 0800 signal was gone = till=20 2400 next night. 
What mode and what time you want = signal? =20 Bob

From: markusvester@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Date:=20 Fri, 7 Mar 2014 21:45:19 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: New OPERA = OP/OPDS 2H=20 tonight on 27.945 Dial Freq...

Jim,

 

I = would think=20 that the main difference between Todmorden and Nuernberg is that = I'm into=20 the sunrise dip an hour earlier. And my noise background is = higher, so I=20 tend to completely lose a weak signal which Paul would still = receive=20 well.

 

Anyway looking=20 at the attached NAA plot I'm sort of perplexed by the=20 strong propagation during the day. If Bob decided to transmit = sometime around 15 UT, there's a good chance we'd pick it=20 up.

 

Best=20 73,

Markus=20 (DF6NM)

 

... 

------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CF3AF0.CAE5BED0--