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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 5si6484164eei.165.2013.12.14.10.19.01 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:19:01 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass header.i=@mx.aol.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Vrtms-0004XH-4M for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 18:18:02 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Vrtmr-0004X8-DN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 18:18:01 +0000 Received: from omr-m09.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.82]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Vrtmo-0001aU-MX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 18:18:00 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.196]) by omr-m09.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id A26D5700000B5; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:17:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from White (95-91-238-155-dynip.superkabel.de [95.91.238.155]) by mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id DB245E00008A; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:17:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Markus Vester" To: Cc: References: Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 19:17:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1387045076; bh=IAURJ99YFTXhiIXVZwVfZ8u4y/2EgM28aTpwlWd6MgE=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=U0CBNT2Uj6WRPAI7ITVmRQEhqGWHCr16jGoSiuwcN0dV7OMn8ngRjPw2V+5ZzV9HA afr8ygRNsZxB2GUE4bgUV2u40V7rtGB8gklSDghe4XB+FqWvBr7eZC5PZEmv7nu1QR b1LGR6nEgCz5UPMaNB4Vcac34sH5OSLej/1QTgbw= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c452aca0d36075 X-AOL-IP: 95.91.238.155 X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Trevor, thanks for this comment! It would be interesting to know how much spacing is needed between a weak WSPR signal and a relatively strong neighbouring carrier, located within the WSPR analysis range but outside the four-tone spectrum of the desired signal. [...] Content analysis details: (-0.4 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [64.12.143.82 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.4 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 72f3686d3f5e154c987315e88c667a5f Subject: Re: LF: All 73 Banders... wspr-x recordings Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01CEF901.303B4FC0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2166 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01CEF901.303B4FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Trevor, thanks for this comment! It would be interesting to know how much = spacing is needed between a weak WSPR signal and a relatively strong = neighbouring carrier, located within the WSPR analysis range but outside = the four-tone spectrum of the desired signal. Unfortunately I can't contribute as I hadn't run recordings, and also = both the desired WSPR signal and the Loran carrier were anyway too weak = here for a meaningful result. Perhaps Hartmut or Victor happened to have = .c2 or .wav saving enabled last night?=20 Best 73, Markus From: Trevor Smithers=20 Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 6:43 PM To: markusvester@aol.com ; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; = lowfer@mailman.qth.net=20 Cc: tsmithers@cix.co.uk=20 Subject: Re: LF: All 73 Banders... As you know WSPR-X is regarded as experimental software and as such Joe = Taylor K1JT has=20 often asked for users to contact him with any difficulties they = encounter. So how about Marcus, Hartmut, Victor and anyone else, producing a .wav = file of successful and=20 non successful wspr-15 decodes including all the DCF77 and other qrm. = The files could be sent=20 to Joe direct or made available for him to download and he can analyse = them to see if any=20 improvements can be made. K1JT email address can be found at the bottom of this page http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wspr.html Trevor G0KTN From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:03 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; Bob Raide=20 Subject: Re: LF: All 73 Banders... ... It's however strange that Hartmut and Victor didn't get any decodes, = even though the signal seemed to be well visible for both. What looks = like noise on Victor's capture must really be the WSPR-15 spectrum:=20 = http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/pa3fny_74603_131214_0700_arro= wheads.jpg But both statiopns have a relatively strong Loran line, and Hartmut's = directional antenna is pointing towards Sylt. However the nearby line = frequency 74603.280 Hz should have been well outside the occupied = spectrum of Bob's WSPR signal (74603.51 to 604.24), so it's not ovbvious = why it should have prevented decodes. I'm speculating that the WSPR = software finds the strong line, tries to sync to it, and then somehow = excludes nearby real signals from further decode attempts. To prove the = point and see how much spacing is needed, we could experiment with = letting WSPR decode local audio signals in the presence of injected = carriers. But systematic trials with WSPR tend to be time-consuming, = even if such tests were accelerated by scaling to WSPR-2. ... ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01CEF901.303B4FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Trevor,
 
thanks for this comment! It would be = interesting to=20 know how much spacing is needed between a weak WSPR signal and a = relatively=20 strong neighbouring carrier, located within the WSPR analysis = range=20 but outside the four-tone spectrum of the desired = signal.
Unfortunately I can't contribute as I = hadn't run=20 recordings, and also both the desired WSPR signal and the Loran=20 carrier were anyway too weak here for a meaningful=20 result. Perhaps Hartmut or Victor happened to have .c2 or .wav = saving=20 enabled last night? 
 
Best 73,
Markus
 
From: Trevor Smithers
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 6:43 PM
To: markusvester@aol.com ; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ; lowfer@mailman.qth.net
Cc: tsmithers@cix.co.uk
Subject: Re: LF: All 73 Banders...

As you know WSPR-X is regarded as = experimental=20 software and as such Joe Taylor K1JT has
often asked for users to = contact=20 him with any difficulties they encounter.

So how about Marcus, = Hartmut,=20 Victor and anyone else, producing a .wav file of successful and
non=20 successful wspr-15 decodes including all the DCF77 and other qrm. The = files=20 could be sent
to Joe direct or made available for him to download = and he can=20 analyse them to see if any
improvements can be made.

K1JT = email=20 address can be found at the bottom of this page
http://physic= s.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wspr.html

Trevor =20 G0KTN

Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: LF: All 73 Banders...
...
It's however strange that Hartmut and Victor didn't get any = decodes, even=20 though the signal seemed to be well visible for both. What looks like = noise on=20 Victor's capture must really be the WSPR-15 spectrum:
 http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/pa3fny_74603_131214= _0700_arrowheads.jpg

But both statiopns have a relatively strong Loran line, and = Hartmut's=20 directional antenna is pointing towards Sylt. However the nearby line = frequency=20 74603.280 Hz should have been well outside the occupied spectrum of = Bob's WSPR=20 signal (74603.51 to 604.24), so it's not ovbvious why it should have = prevented=20 decodes. I'm speculating that the WSPR software finds the strong line, = tries to=20 sync to it, and then somehow excludes nearby real signals from further = decode=20 attempts. To prove the point and see how much spacing is needed, we = could=20 experiment with letting WSPR decode local audio signals in the presence = of=20 injected carriers. But systematic trials with WSPR tend to be = time-consuming,=20 even if such tests were accelerated by scaling to WSPR-2.
...
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