Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.167]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-a97c4b82c6081f7; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:59:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 843BB380000D7; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:59:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcYJ-0003VZ-H4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcYI-0003VQ-VG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:38 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjcYE-0003vp-QY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:38 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1920695bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:58:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=6CMnxJd3kM9G6PB+byJ57bBuEtFgO6XKeYz0Pwiko5g=; b=HszRV16JjKCxaG1bMjQZRMxauPpdhh/WhwfSX+PBekuMdR5BwZp2ECfEc0smtNM6l/ y+LMkgaOPNA4n09Du/2hns2e2OD/FQbXsBWV66jr1OXS1NB3B8BouIYRXoLc0wI0aIA/ LLClEb2VyKwl8IOuPdRrAK3jdWIodJNFLJ1hU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=nWR/f8S9t8HYRB3RRA7GVNk0+Qso0V5pdVAaKUws+nvhsUbCXV6ZyzFAeUEdwCrzIW uoMnXgs4Mca4xZCsAEUntq7GnvtsGHJRafYA/PMiBLWyyKGBWggIigFw94SZrOM+iMfE R1xDa9Hyso8YcVzm0HgzdYX0NerTJ55llhihU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.156.22 with SMTP id u22mr2299532bkw.24.1266861507397; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:58:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:27 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220958v216c300byec6f9bbfdf8f9e53@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175df23820c8320480342ec1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d237.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400cded14b82c6060e79 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175df23820c8320480342ec1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Maybe some enterprising US hams could "borrow" the massive antenna system (if it is still up) for some <9kHz tests in much the same way some UK hams used the old Decca stations on 73kHz! Thanks - interesting link. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 17:37, Warren Ziegler wrote: > Roger, > > I believe that elf is being abandoned for use with > submarines in favor of a system that shoots lasers from satellites > into the water. > The US has shut down its 76 Hz transmitter in Clam Lake Wisconsin > which used 3 Megawatts of transmitter power to achieve an ERP of 8 > watts! > Interesting write up on the web: > http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/fs_clam_lake_elf2003.pdf > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Roger Lapthorn > wrote: > > This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with > another > > request. I will happily do it if no-one else will. > > > > With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. > > non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to allocate > > "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern was a military one > - > > possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low VLF > > region - and they were "instructed" to give this response. If so they > must > > all be paranoid. > > > > On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would > scrap > > our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into > renewable > > energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here. I'm > > happy to discuss this with others off-list. > > > > 73s > > Roger G3XBM > > > > > > > > On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA wrote: > >> > >> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to > >> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time > >> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I > remember > >> was:- > >> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we > >> control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be > >> issuing any licences for that region. > >> > >> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be > different > >> now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be > >> worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > >> > >> Alan G3NYK > >> > > > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175df23820c8320480342ec1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe some enterprising US hams could "borrow" the massive anten= na system (if it is still up) for some <9kHz tests in much the same way= some UK hams used the old Decca stations on 73kHz!

Thanks - intere= sting link.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 20= 10 17:37, Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com> wrote:
Roger,

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 I believe that elf is being abandoned for use with submarines in favor of a system that shoots lasers from satellites
into the water.
The US has shut down its 76 Hz transmitter in Clam Lake Wisconsin
which used 3 Megawatts of transmitter power to achieve an ERP of 8
watts!
Interesting write up on the web:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/fs_clam_lake_elf2= 003.pdf

--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM,= Roger Lapthorn
<rogerlapthorn@gmail.com= > wrote:
> This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with= another
> request. I will happily do it if no-one else will.
>
> With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. > non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to alloc= ate
> "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern= was a military one -
> possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low= VLF
> region - and they were "instructed" to give this response.= =A0 If so they must
> all be paranoid.
>
> On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would= scrap
> our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into re= newable
> energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here.= I'm
> happy to discuss this with others off-list.
>
> 73s
> Roger G3XBM
>
>
>
> On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably= need to
>> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at= one time
>> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as= I remember
>> was:-
>> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty= but we
>> control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will= not be
>> issuing any licences for that region.
>>
>> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be= different
>> now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach woul= d be
>> worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff th= rough.
>>
>> Alan G3NYK
>>
>
> http://g= 3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
> http://www.g3xbm= .co.uk
> http:= //www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
>




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175df23820c8320480342ec1--