Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.216]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI083-eb684b5855f3307; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 08:26:11 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 83D2938000090; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 08:26:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NXx2A-00055t-S7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:25:14 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NXx2A-00055k-4y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:25:14 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f221.google.com ([209.85.218.221]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NXx27-0005gA-Hm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:25:14 +0000 Received: by bwz21 with SMTP id 21so1160269bwz.4 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:25:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=kfEWiCtJJ9bLA/p227XQUBQSe7op/j1j+ACYLykCJA8=; b=edW10gHRakLIrvuKaMRNMoO1TPfpQrniu+aoXztIefiGkxCEtu6jYJfmvW5WeCv0PJ NO3qHmlOi5t34Wo50NBQ7nMcEKU7aXAtob0uxwlE4JHUNCdMU4Hk6rfi8Vn26t6h03vz NsXJFD/eCQ5hA/xQWYrPNCAUIFRp4EO6QKoLY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=u2gCes+TH/Owa83ylkDl6/zSN7jjfPLv2LNKHuqOjKVWYTiHwQPzXbBKOwy0liw9k4 unNrnpiwI7xU7j5EPBN3lAbVoPCf9leRbzhlDBe7b+U0Tw9sRqhTIiflUe88jCwMoolx ngQjdg4ot8i123nWuy0H1fCFOSca/i3JyNlPM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.8.3 with SMTP id f3mr758841bkf.140.1264080303826; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:25:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100121104239.E3CDE31E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> References: <000b01ca9a1d$f538a620$0202a8c0@laptopcore2> <20100121104239.E3CDE31E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:25:03 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641001210525p2b5eab47lfa84307e071ac5e6@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: about guns, water pistols and dripping tabs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bec607a2674047daca143 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d84b5855f11c2d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174bec607a2674047daca143 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rik, This is most interesting. I notice that M0BMU was running with 50mW ERP la= st night, so it might be worth plugging in his reports as well for last night= . My ERP was based on (a) field strength measurements done some time ago by M0BMU and (b) calculations based on my estimate of effective height and antenna current. I estimated it as being in the region of 500uW to 2mW but Jim seemed to believe the 1mW ERP was a fair estimate with quite large err= or margins. It would be interesting to know if M0BMU still believes the 1mW= ERP is a correct figure. I have not made any further improvements since Jim's last estimates some 6-8 weeks ago. What is the path length difference between us all over to you? That will also have some effect on the relative levels. BTW, Dom Baines M1KTA quoted something interesting to me today: "Terman's Radio Engineering Handbook (1948) stated the maximum working distance for 1 kW 500kHz over salt water was 1,500 miles!". So, I need to up my power then! 73s Roger G3XBM 2010/1/21 Rik Strobbe > Eddie, Andy, Roger, all, > > the nice thing about WSPR and the www.wspr.org web site is that a lot af > data is available. > I copied the my spots (past 7 days) of G4JNT, G3XBM and G3ZJO from the= web > site and threw them in the mill to check how often I copied at least 2= of > the 3 calls in the same time slot: > I took only the night time spots as I assume that propagation then is 1= hop > ionospheric and small differences in distance are less important. > > * G3XBM - G3ZJO: 6 'hits', average difference =3D 8dB (in favor of Roger= ) > 6 data sets is a bit low to to proper statistics, but the difference of= 8dB > between Roger and Eddie fits well into the claimed ERP's (1mW and 200uW= =3D > 7dB) > > * G4JNT - G3XBM : 60 'hits', average difference =3D 15dB (in favor of An= dy) > 15dB difference would mean that if Roger's 1mW ERP is correct that Andy > would run "only" 30mW ERP ? > But the standard dev. is 6dB, so it could be (a more realistic) 120mW as > well ... > > * G4JNT - G3ZJO: 6 'hits', average difference =3D 23dB (in favor of Andy= ) > Nice, this is the sum of the previous values (as iit should be ;-) ) > > All values are give or take some dB, but they seem to make sense. > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > At 23:14 20/01/2010, you wrote: > > Yeh ! Congratulations Roger. > > Lubos you have the Water Pistol, can you now RX a tiny Dripping Tap, my > QRPp 200uW ERP is on.. > > 73 > > * Eddie* G3ZJO > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org] > *On Behalf Of *Andy Talbot > *Sent:* 20 January 2010 22:01 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: G3XBM > > Congratulations, "water pistol" > 1200km - a very comfortable margin too. > > > Andy > www.g4jnt.com > > 2010/1/20 Lubos OK2BVG > Hello Roger, LF! > This moment is just now: > > 2136 -7 0.2 0.503874 0 G4JNT IO90 23 > > 2142 -29 -0.5 0.503910 1 G3XBM JO02 0 > > Congratulation! > > Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS > ------------------------------ > Windows 7: Kter=FD po=E8=EDta=E8 je pro v=E1s ten prav=FD? Dal=B9=ED in= formace. > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 270.14.151/2633 - Release Date: 01/19= /10 > 17:49:00 > > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015174bec607a2674047daca143 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rik,

This is most interesting. I notice that M0BMU was running= with 50mW ERP last night, so it might be worth plugging in his reports as= well for last night. My ERP was based on (a) field strength measurements= done some time ago by M0BMU and (b) calculations based on my estimate of= effective height and antenna current. I estimated it as being in the regi= on of 500uW to 2mW but Jim seemed to believe the 1mW ERP was a fair estima= te with quite large error margins. It would be interesting to know if M0BM= U still believes the 1mW ERP is a correct figure. I have not made any furt= her improvements since Jim's last estimates some 6-8 weeks ago.

What is the path length difference between us all over to you? That wi= ll also have some effect on the relative levels.

BTW, Dom Baines M1= KTA quoted something interesting to me today: "Terman's Radio Eng= ineering Handbook (1948)
stated the maximum working distance for 1=A0kW 500kHz over salt water was= 1,500 miles!". So, I need to up my power then!

73s
Roger= G3XBM




2010/1/21 Rik Strobbe= <rik.= strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
Eddie, Andy, Roger, all,

the nice thing about WSPR and the www.wspr.org web si= te is that a lot af data is available.
I copied the my spots (past 7 days) of G4JNT, G3XBM and G3ZJO from the web site and threw them in the mill to check how often I copied=A0 at least 2 of the 3 calls in the same time slot:
I took only the night time spots as I assume that propagation then is 1 hop ionospheric and small differences in distance are less important.

* G3XBM - G3ZJO: 6 'hits', average difference =3D 8dB (in favor of Roger)
6 data sets is a bit low to to proper statistics, but the difference of 8dB between Roger and Eddie fits well into the claimed ERP's (1mW and 200uW =3D 7dB)

* G4JNT - G3XBM : 60 'hits', average difference =3D 15dB (in favor= of Andy)
15dB difference would mean that if Roger's 1mW ERP is correct that And= y would run "only" 30mW ERP ?
But the standard dev. is 6dB, so it could be (a more realistic) 120mW as well ...

* G4JNT - G3ZJO: 6 'hits', average difference =3D 23dB (in favor= of Andy)
Nice, this is the sum of the previous values (as iit should be ;-) )

All values are give or take some dB, but they seem to make sense.

73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T

At 23:14 20/01/2010, you wrote:
Yeh ! Congratulations Roger.
=A0
Lubos you have the Water Pistol, can you now RX a tiny Dripping Tap, my QRPp 200uW ERP is on..
=A0
73
=A0
 Eddie G3ZJO
=A0
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Andy Talbot
Sent: 20 January 2010 22:01
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: G3XBM
=A0
Congratulations,=A0 "water pistol"
1200km - a very comfortable margin too.
=A0

Andy
www.g4jnt.com
2010/1/20 Lubos OK2BVG <bvgbob@hotmail= .com>
Hello Roger, LF!
This moment is just now:

2136=A0 -7=A0 0.2=A0=A0 0.503874=A0 0 G4JNT IO90 23

2142 -29 -0.5=A0=A0 0.503910=A0 1 G3XBM JO02 0

Congratulation!

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
Windows 7: Kter=FD po=E8=EDta=E8 je= pro v=E1s ten prav=FD? Dal=B9=ED informace.
=A0

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 270.14.151/2633 - Release Date: 01/19/10 17:49:00



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015174bec607a2674047daca143--