Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.218]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF033-5eec4b4102ea1c8; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 15:49:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EE6C238006577; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 15:05:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NRWgs-0005Mq-CW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 20:04:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NRWgr-0005Mh-PK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 20:04:41 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f221.google.com ([209.85.218.221]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NRWgo-0006AI-Gz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 20:04:41 +0000 Received: by bwz21 with SMTP id 21so9326575bwz.4 for ; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 12:04:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=IDpn18ptg56JDBcehHOMoUsyLm0F5qJe+kAUOp1ZVqQ=; b=HAWgz42Q8vm1UFa5HhNbYrbVEDcaIZznfYV35rL6mABzlBBVl/wBtBBgbirB3ndJ4k WwL8fftyRCRJ2n58vRhTzRA4T0azJrZGVrcCKGA0x2FSI//VOfGyCOYsiQcF2ceq4kiV 72pVtK6UZ0Bsm8uzFgpgRG5g1O1gyX2XgEBNE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=v6YdCQX1flMIHdtle4xpIch9v7ffjvxEnncGVBe9k408amRMHL1R8rCy7WKkh0dYJq nT2rwlEhqGR0MIRPKtuZ9XKUApUNwo4mb38hy1bRHDCASSz6ZGLf5zT9m49yZzvrHm39 4ezdYkp8Dp4WshXg9lFOdGNQSSeEqJsPDeiDw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.153.27 with SMTP id i27mr10382892bkw.155.1262549072083; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 12:04:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <571708.75185.qm@web28106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <9afca2641001021420k5b4b5856x2dadbe35e2c87ead@mail.gmail.com> <571708.75185.qm@web28106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 20:04:32 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641001031204i254a12aft25b3063c8c1447cd@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Karma: unknown: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: G3XBM & Anti Social ssb Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151761ca58f3fc39047c481c0f X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60da4b40f8967814 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00151761ca58f3fc39047c481c0f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Peter (and all LF) My point on WSPR is a serious one and I think you've either not followed my logic or understood how bandwidth efficient WSPR is. Let me spell it out again... Within just 200Hz of the band *>100* stations can happily coexist and still leave ALL of the remaining band for good use by stations wanting QSOs (rather than beacon type experiments) using whatever narrowband mode they choose. This is *excellent* use of precious spectrum and beats anything else for "experimentation and self training per Hz" by my book. I have every wish to enjoy the rest of 500Hz as well, but find the small slot for WSPR a valuable use of the band in a way very much in keeping with the aims of our ham licences. Also, with WSPR high power is *not* necessary, so interference and coexistence issues should be perfectly manageable. 73s Roger G3XBM 2010/1/3 M0FMT > Hi Roger and LF > > 1/ 10Mhz is a totally different situation to the 500kc/s allocation and can > not be compared. Its like comparing Apples and Bananas. It's a wide band > compared to 500 and has very short ground wave. Mostly propagating via sky > wave so the issues we see on 500 just don't apply. > > 2/ The Sideband beacon transmission from one of the EU "Vanity" stations HF > of the British experimental and research allocation does not have any real > impact on the British allocation as far as I can see so it is a non issue > IMHO although its purpose is slightly beyond my Neanderthal brain. > 3/ We should all be nice to each other?.... The Third Man was on TV over > the week end and ......... > > > Harry Lime said ..... "In Italy, for 30 years under the Borgias, they had > warfare, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da > Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they have brotherly love. They > had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? - The > cuckoo clock!" > > > > Think on! > > 73 es HNY petefmt > > --- On *Sat, 2/1/10, Roger Lapthorn * wrote: > > > From: Roger Lapthorn > Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Saturday, 2 January, 2010, 22:20 > > Mal, > > Some suggestions: > > 1. *More* people should use WSPR - lots of stations (more than 100 at a > time based on 10MHz usage) are able to operate together within just a 200Hz > slice of the band allowing very useful data on propagation and station > performance/changes to be determined. This would leave plenty of room > elsewhere in the band for CW and other narrowband conversational modes. > 2. Occasional testing with SSB, for those allowed to use it (not UK), > is of interest to me as a listener, but I agree that it's *not* a good > idea to use this mode when the band is open for really long-distance DX if > interference to weak signals is likely. > 3. You should try a New Year resolution: "I will be more tolerant and > moan less". > > 73s and a happy New Year to all on this reflector > > Roger G3XBM > > > > > 2010/1/2 mal hamilton > > > >> I am afraid we have a SSB beacon on 508 kcs spreading over 3 kcs wide >> and S9 plus with me. Beacon SM6BHZ is causing QRM to those of us trying to >> listen and work the East Coast USA stations. I cannot understand why a >> station is licensed to work SSB in such a narrow band allocation. >> The 500 kcs band is a Shambles swamped by beacons. >> Does anyone else have an opinion? >> G3KEV >> >> > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------- > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00151761ca58f3fc39047c481c0f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Peter (and all LF)

My point on WSPR is a serious one and I think= you've either not followed my logic or understood how bandwidth effic= ient WSPR is.

Let me spell it out again...

Within just 200Hz= of the band >100 stations can happily coexist and still= leave ALL of the remaining band for good use by stations wanting QSOs (ra= ther than beacon type experiments) using whatever narrowband mode they cho= ose. This is excellent use of precious spectrum and beats anything= else for "experimentation and self training per Hz" by my book.=

I have every wish to enjoy the rest of 500Hz as well, but find the sma= ll slot for WSPR a valuable use of the band in a way very much in keeping= with the aims of our ham licences. Also, with WSPR high power is not necessary, so interference and coexistence issues should be perfectly= manageable.

73s
Roger G3XBM

2010/1/3 M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk= >
Hi Roger and LF
=A0
1/ 10Mhz is a totally different situation to the 500kc/s allocation= and can not be compared. Its like comparing Apples and Bananas. It's= a wide band compared to 500 and has very short ground wave. Mostly propag= ating via sky wave so the issues we see on 500 just don't apply.
=A0
2/ The Sideband beacon transmission=A0from one of the EU "Vanity= " stations HF of the British experimental and research allocation doe= s not have any real impact on the British allocation as far as I can see= so it is a non issue IMHO although its purpose is slightly beyond my Nean= derthal=A0brain.=A0=A0
3/ We should all be nice to each other?.... The=A0Third Man was on TV= over the week end and .........=A0=A0
=A0

Harry Lime said ....= . =A0"In Italy, for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, mur= der and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and= the Renaissance. In Switzerland they have brotherly love. They had 500 ye= ars of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? - The cuckoo clock!= "=A0=A0=20

=A0

Think on!


73 es=A0HNY petefmt

--- On Sat, 2/1/10, Roger Lapth= orn <ro= gerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com><= br>Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb
To: rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Saturday, 2 January, 2010, 22:20
=
Mal,

Some suggestions:
  1. More people should use WSPR - lots of stations (more than 100= at a time based on 10MHz usage) are able to operate together within just= a 200Hz slice of the band allowing very useful data on propagation and st= ation performance/changes to be determined.=A0 This would leave plenty of= room elsewhere in the band for CW and other narrowband conversational mod= es.
  2. Occasional testing with SSB, for those allowed to use it (not UK), is= of interest to me as a listener, but I agree that it's not a= good idea to use this mode when the band is open for really long-distance= DX if interference to weak signals is likely.
  3. You should try a New Year resolution: "I will be more tolerant an= d moan less".
73s and a happy New Year to all on this= reflector

Roger G3XBM




2010/1/2 mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>
I am afraid we have a SSB beacon on 508 kcs spre= ading over 3 kcs wide and S9 plus with me. Beacon SM6BHZ is causing QRM to= those of us trying to listen and work the East Coast USA stations. I cann= ot understand why a station is licensed to work SSB in such a narrow band= allocation.
The 500 kcs band is a Shambles swamped by beacon= s.
Does anyone else have an opinion?
G3KEV
=A0



--
--= -----------------------------------------------------------
http://= g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
htt= p://www.g3xbm.co.uk
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088




--
----------------= ---------------------------------------------
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00151761ca58f3fc39047c481c0f--