Return-Path: Received: from rly-me03.mx.aol.com (rly-me03.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.36]) by air-me10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME104-9a64b24caadf3; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:06:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-me03.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINME032-9a64b24caadf3; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:06:22 -0500 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NJmFn-0002Jw-1Y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:04:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NJmFm-0002Jn-6w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:04:42 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f221.google.com ([209.85.218.221]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NJmG8-0003KZ-SJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:05:08 +0000 Received: by bwz21 with SMTP id 21so1541336bwz.4 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 03:05:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=MemKwgQN7+fNvusb9BsGZOJ9XtuKyg7bZ69cYMd8jbc=; b=VqMr2BKbAGwxv/TcCgcDyDC/JzF27Or9/jbmeNoSLNI2921+KriqDwkQ2e6aaLgvgy 86WGUNvml3KYlknPm3bOiOOl59qaapFiDzA7QuUjhDrOEW51RPWmS8lUTidCa8c44Qlz 7YpuvC58Oab6ciuMIbI5nmhRwCNF2Vg5IKf5E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=mWFTfdqBpMEtWBH78AAwFhDE14IREdb5lvwFonc7WjUDSXrCrO1WUG/7AcBt7miqXK EJ02kwCawAYjRyi6Lhx7WwvNwdS6yeRcW6XQf7hw7FGSQ1AEA2b0z2KH0P+vDl+lo9pW YKWjDJKtJt7hIckzCJjnUR+6he26bAXu9zCKY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.154.209 with SMTP id p17mr2035157bkw.104.1260702302914; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 03:05:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <241919.87622.qm@web86503.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <9afca2640912091527s766a7e64wa10ad3be7c7f6f08@mail.gmail.com> <241919.87622.qm@web86503.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:05:02 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2640912130305r3acb5e5fs991caaa1115d2255@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Karma: unknown: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 500kHz simple 5W TX/RX transverter >>DATA MODES<< Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cd0eaeeca2e047a9a201b X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m225.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175cd0eaeeca2e047a9a201b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, 10MHz would be a better choice. I used 28MHz as it allowed both 136 and 500kHz transversion (is that a real word?) from within a single ham band with the same transverter (apart from PA filter) with a ham band only TX radio like the FT817. Using a TXCO of course would be an added aid to stability. The transverter unit was going to be finally boxed yesterday but we have been "grandson sitting" this weekend as mum and dad are poorly and now my wife has gone done with the same tummy bug as well! 73s Roger G3XBM 2009/12/10 ALAN MELIA > Hi Roger yes you are right of course its the drift within a qso period or > even an over that is most important. Very Good. > > I wonder whether the use of 10MHz as an "IF" would be a possibility? This > would allow readily available TCXOs or even OCXOs to be used for the LO. I > guess the split should be enough to allow your filter/diplexor to work. It > obviously only removes one source of drift, one cant do much about the 817, > but that also should be less at 10MHz? > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Wed, 9/12/09, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > > > From: Roger Lapthorn > > Subject: Re: LF: 500kHz simple 5W TX/RX transverter >>DATA MODES<< > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Date: Wednesday, 9 December, 2009, 23:27 > > With the transverter "in the > > open" (rat's nest) on the desktop there is a > > warm-up drift of about 40Hz HF until things settle down. > > This has not been an issue with WSPR as the drift in a > > single TX slot is only about 1-2Hz usually (WSPR copes with > > this) and it soon settles down to 0Hz drift. I have not > > tried QRSS but imagine you'd have to ensure the xtal > > oscillator is made more thermally stable for v.slow QRSS, > > but would guess it would be OK for some moderate QRSS > > operation. Putting the whole unit in a box should help. > > > > > > My little circuit works, but is surely capable of much > > improvement, HI. > > > > 73s > > Roger G3XBM > > > > 2009/12/9 ALAN MELIA > > > > Sounds good Roger and Graham... > > what it the stability like the problem with > > transverters/upconverters normally is that while ok for some > > modes they are often not stable enough for the very weak > > signal modes. These are modes where you need to know the > > frequency of a station very accurately because you will not > > hear it, or it will only pop above the noise for short > > periods. > > > > > > > > > > Alan G3NYK > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 9/12/09, Graham > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Graham > > > > > Subject: LF: 500kHz simple 5W TX/RX transverter > > >>DATA MODES<< > > > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > > > Date: Wednesday, 9 December, 2009, 22:13 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All > > > > > > > > > > This latest > > > > > addition to the > > > > > HF / MF tx convertor opens the door > > > > > to data > > > > > communications on 500 ... ranging from > > > > > 'all' the K1JT systems > > > > > through to the single carrier > > > > > multi tone > > > > > systems of > > > > > MFSK , DOMINO and THOR .. even > > > > > the almost > > > > > forgotten Amtor-arq and Packtor modes , anyone > > > > > still have > > > > > there pk232 > > > > > > > > > > listed are > > > > > data modes that may be used with > > > > > non-linear systems :- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.google.com/group/uk500khz/web/meat-grinder-comms > > > > > > > > > > G.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Roger > > > > > Lapthorn > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:20 AM > > > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: LF: 500kHz simple 5W TX/RX > > > > > transverter > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > My WSPR tx up-converter has now been modified to > > > > > a full TX/RX tranverter suitable for WSPR, QRSS and > > > > > CW in a > > > > > very simple way, making use of the FT817 split > > > > > facility which allows you > > > > > to RX on 500kHz and TX on 28MHz. By adding a series > > LC > > > > > between the TX PA and the > > > > > FT817 input/output RF connection (with back-to-back > > diodes > > > > > at the L and C > > > > > junction, this allows "pass through" from > > the > > > > > 500kHz ATU to the FT817 on RX > > > > > (tuned to 500kHz). On TX, the diodes conduct and the C > > part > > > > > is in parallel with > > > > > the first cap in the TX low pass filter. This scheme > > is now > > > > > working really well > > > > > with good RX sensitivity and no change in TX power > > out. > > > > > > > > > > Schematic of the > > > > > transverter is on my blog at http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > > > > > . My > > > > > attempt to add it as an attachment to an email here > > earlier > > > > > failed. > > > > > > > > > > This more or less concludes my 500kHz experimenting, > > apart > > > > > from > > > > > getting a few more CW QSOs in the log. It's been > > great > > > > > fun all the way with lots > > > > > of support from folks here. I was going to try 136kHz, > > but > > > > > think I will now give > > > > > this a miss for now. > > > > > > > > > > 73s > > > > > Roger G3XBM > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > > > > > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > > > > > G3XBM > > > > > GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > > > > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175cd0eaeeca2e047a9a201b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, 10MHz would be a better choice. I used 28MHz as it allowed both 136= and 500kHz transversion (is that a real word?) from within a single ham= band with the same transverter (apart from PA filter) with a ham band onl= y TX radio like the FT817. Using a TXCO of course would be an added aid to= stability.

The transverter unit was going to be finally boxed yesterday but we ha= ve been "grandson sitting" this weekend as mum and dad are poorl= y and now my wife has gone done with the same tummy bug as well!

73= s
Roger G3XBM


2009/12/10 ALAN MELIA <alan.meli= a@btinternet.com>
Hi Roger yes you are right of course its the drift within a qso period or= even an over that is most important. Very Good.

I wonder whether the use of 10MHz as an "IF" would be a possibil= ity? This would allow readily available TCXOs or even OCXOs to be used for= the LO. I guess the split should be enough to allow your filter/diplexor= to work. It obviously only removes one source of drift, one cant do much= about the 817, but that also should be less at 10MHz?

Alan G3NYK

--- On Wed, 9/12/09, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Roger Lapthorn <r= ogerlapthorn@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: LF: 500kHz simple 5W TX/RX transverter >>DATA MODE= S<<
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Wednesday, 9 December, 2009, 23:27
> With the transverter "in the > open" (rat's nest) on the desktop there is a
> warm-up drift of about 40Hz HF until things settle down.
> This has not been an issue with WSPR as the drift in a
> single TX slot is only about 1-2Hz usually (WSPR copes with
> this) and it soon settles down to 0Hz drift. I have not
> tried QRSS but imagine you'd have to ensure the xtal
> oscillator is made more thermally stable for v.slow QRSS,
> but would guess it would be OK for some moderate QRSS
> operation. Putting the whole unit in a box should help.
>
>
> My little circuit works, but is surely capable of much
> improvement, HI.
>
> 73s
> Roger G3XBM
>
> 2009/12/9 ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
>
> Sounds good Roger and Graham...
> what it the stability like the problem with
> transverters/upconverters normally is that while ok for some
> modes they are =A0often not stable enough for the very weak
> signal modes. These are modes where you need to know the
> frequency of a station very accurately because you will not
> hear it, or it will only pop above the noise for short
> periods.
>
>
>
>
> Alan G3NYK
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/12/09, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: Graham <g8fz= k@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> > Subject: LF: 500kHz simple 5W TX/RX transverter
> >>DATA MODES<<
>
> > To: rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org
>
> > Date: Wednesday, 9 December, 2009, 22:13
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > All
>
> >
>
> > This =A0latest
>
> > addition to =A0the
>
> > HF / MF =A0tx convertor =A0opens the =A0door
>
> > to =A0data
>
> > communications =A0on 500 ... ranging =A0from
>
> > 'all' =A0the K1JT systems
>
> > through to =A0the =A0single carrier
>
> > multi =A0tone
>
> > systems =A0of
>
> > MFSK =A0, =A0DOMINO and THOR =A0.. even
>
> > the =A0almost
>
> > forgotten =A0Amtor-arq =A0and Packtor modes , anyone
>
> > still =A0have
>
> > there pk232
>
> >
>
> > listed =A0are
>
> > data =A0modes that =A0may be =A0used with
>
> > non-linear systems :-
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > http://groups.google.com/group/uk500khz/web/m= eat-grinder-comms
>
> >
>
> > G..
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: Roger
>
> > Lapthorn
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:20 AM
>
> > To: rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Subject: LF: 500kHz simple 5W TX/RX
>
> > transverter
>
> >
>
> > Dear All,
>
> >
>
> > My WSPR tx up-converter has now been modified to
>
> > a full TX/RX tranverter suitable for WSPR, QRSS and
>
> > CW =A0in a
>
> > very simple way, making use of the FT817 split
>
> > facility which allows you
>
> > to RX on 500kHz and TX on 28MHz. By adding a series
> LC
>
> > between the TX PA and the
>
> > FT817 input/output RF connection (with back-to-back
> diodes
>
> > at the L and C
>
> > junction, this allows "pass through" from
> the
>
> > 500kHz ATU to the FT817 on RX
>
> > (tuned to 500kHz). On TX, the diodes conduct and the C
> part
>
> > is in parallel with
>
> > the first cap in the TX low pass filter. This scheme
> is now
>
> > working really well
>
> > with good RX sensitivity and no change in TX power
> out.
>
> >
>
> > Schematic of the
>
> > transverter is on my blog at http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>
> > . My
>
> > attempt to add it as an attachment to an email here
> earlier
>
> > failed.
>
> >
>
> > This more or less concludes my 500kHz experimenting,
> apart
>
> > from
>
> > getting a few more CW QSOs in the log. It's been
> great
>
> > fun all the way with lots
>
> > of support from folks here. I was going to try 136kHz,
> but
>
> > think I will now give
>
> > this a miss for now.
>
> >
>
> > 73s
>
> > Roger G3XBM
>
> > --
>
> >
>
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > htt= p://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>
> > http://www.= g3xbm.co.uk
>
> > G3XBM
>
> > =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> http://g= 3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
> http://www.g3xbm= .co.uk
>
> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
>
>




--
----------= ---------------------------------------------------
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175cd0eaeeca2e047a9a201b--