Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mp01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mp01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.193.69]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDD063-865c4cef04781eb; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 19:51:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mp01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CB73B380000D3; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 19:51:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PLmVm-0004jl-Ro for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 00:50:02 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PLmVm-0004jc-5x for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 00:50:02 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.151] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PLmVk-0001Oj-0l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 00:50:02 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 44C811C0008D for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 01:49:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 328211C0008E for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 01:49:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.110.80.137]) by mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 88BD91C0008D for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2010 01:49:51 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20101126004951560.88BD91C0008D@mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <9DA34185EF634CFE89F265C643104781@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <470960.18404.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <470960.18404.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 00:49:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 101125-1, 25/11/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01CB8D03.D4FB7A20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1dc1454cef0476372e X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CB8D03.D4FB7A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok Pete=20 This is the new router , as its in the same place as the old one ,= with (now) the same filters , the PC is linked with a short netw= ork cable , the rest of the pc's are linked by radio. its the ads= l like thats failing=20 The edimax router was quite robust , never had a drop out on HF= and only over 200 watts , feed , on 500 would stop the link ,= this one fails with 25 watts on 160 .. the router is off mo= st of the day and night , only on with the pc , the new route= r is faster , from 6 (old) meg to 9 med down and 500k (old) to= 890 k upload , but if it keeps dropping out with no cure then= its not much use for my usage=20 G, From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:26 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof ? Hi Graham Are you sure the problem is the router? 136, 500, 160 and to some extent 80m here are kill the ADS= L. Even at very low powers. If your ADSL is cut during your transmissi= ons only and resumes at the original speed directly afterwards it may= well be the router being temporarily being knocked out. If however yo= u line stays down for a period of time say several hours then it is no= t the router. What you are doing is putting noise (owing to RF) onto= your line which is being picked up at the exchange DSLAM. The exchang= e equipment (DSLAM) serving your line will reduce data speed to ensure= that a connection of sorts is maintained. This speed can go down to= below 80kb/s from which it will not recover without technical interve= ntion by BT Open Reach. If it goes down to about 300/500kb/s it may we= ll recover it's original speed over a period of time BT quote 72 hours= yes 72 hours (I think this time period is not a technical issue but= one to stall the punters off). On a good day the recovery period can= be speeded up by turning the router off and disconnecting every thing= from the line and waiting. This makes a quiet line for the automatic= recovery to work.... on a good day!!! If you don't have enough life= left to wait for BT to physically do some thing then the best thing= is to write to BT HQ in London to the their CEO (his name and locatio= n can be found with a bit of research) and tell him what you think of= his outfit. I know from experience he does not like receiving this ki= nd of letter. You may have your ISP as Joe Blogs Internet Provider dot= Com but in reality it is all provided by BT they own the final mile= and the exchange ...... legal niceties to one side it is a fact. If you get a good Broad Band data rate of say 4/8mb/s your= transmissions on LF/MF will only slightly degrade your ADSL but if li= ke me on the end of 7.5km of copper its only 1/1.5mb/s on a very good= day, RF will wipe out your ADSL for a week or more. So without a lot= of letter writing to BT and angry phone calls your ASDL will not retu= rn to original speed.. To maintain a usable data rate on Broad Band here I can no= t use 136 or 500kc/s above a few Milli Watts at TX output about 1 Watt= on 160m 80 about 50Watts and on 60m and above 100Watts (possibly more= but not tested yet). Also the longer you stay on the worst the speed= degrades.My guess is with ADSL2 having a much wider bandwidth the pro= blem for Amateurs will extend further up the spectrum than shown above= . Hope you are not in my situation....... Oh and don't belie= ve all this Fibre stuff. Open Reach have told me that one reason why= Fibre is not being rolled out like the Virgin setup is that there are= only a few BT people capable of working with Fibre. This is the reaso= n why BT is Wedded to copper wire. So we locally have Internet breakdo= wns owing to Junkies and the like ripping the Copper cables out of BT= ducting to pay for drugs... Bedfordshire has had Internet disconnecti= ons for days owing to this phenomenon. So along with cable theft and= the lack of trained staff a proper interference free Broad Band cover= age using fibre in this country is looking particularly bleak. Good luck! 73 es GL petefmt I support www.NotSpotTelecom.Com your community Telco / IS= P. --- On Thu, 25/11/10, Graham wro= te: From: Graham Subject: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 22:06 Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof ? Just upgraded to ADSL2 with a orange net-gear rout= er/wifi router, now 15 watts on 160 kills the connection =20 router is in the same location as the old edimax , wh= ich kept running with 200 watts on 500 K and 400 on Hf=20 ? any RF proof ADSL2 on the market > Tnx - G..=20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CB8D03.D4FB7A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok Pete
 
This is the new  router , as its=   in=20 the  same place as the old one , with (now) the  same = filters ,=20 the  PC is  linked with a  short network  cable ,= the =20 rest of the  pc's are  linked by radio. its the  adsl&n= bsp; like=20 thats  failing
 
The edimax   router was&nbs= p; quite =20 robust , never had a drop  out on HF and only  over 200 = ;=20 watts  , feed , on 500  would stop  the  link , th= is=20 one  fails  with  25  watts  on 160  ..= the =20 router  is  off  most of the  day  and = =20 night  , only  on  with the  pc , the  new&nb= sp;=20 router  is faster  , from 6 (old)  meg to 9 med = down =20 and  500k (old) to  890 k upload , but  if it = ;=20 keeps  dropping  out  with no  cure then  its= not =20 much  use for  my usage
 
G,

From: M0FMT
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Any ADSL2 BBand router / RF proof=20 ?

Hi Graham
 
Are you sure the problem is the router?
 
136, 500, 160 and to some extent 80m here are ki= ll the=20 ADSL. Even at very low powers. If your ADSL= is cut=20 during your transmissions only and resumes at the original= speed=20 directly afterwards it may well be the router being tempor= arily=20 being knocked out. If however you line stays down for a pe= riod of=20 time say several hours then it is not the router. What you= are doing=20 is putting noise (owing to RF) onto your line which is bei= ng picked=20 up at the exchange DSLAM. The exchange equipment (DSLAM)= serving=20 your line will reduce data speed to ensure that a connecti= on of=20 sorts is maintained. This speed can go down to below 80kb/= s from=20 which it will not recover without technical intervention= by BT Open=20 Reach. If it goes down to about 300/500kb/s it may well re= cover it's=20 original speed over a period of time BT quote 72 hours yes= 72 hours=20 (I think this time period is not a technical issue but one= to stall=20 the punters off). On a good day the recovery period can be= speeded=20 up by turning the router off and disconnecting every thing= from the=20 line and waiting. This makes a quiet line for the automati= c recovery=20 to work.... on a good day!!! If you don't have enough life= left to=20 wait for BT to physically do some thing then the best thin= g is to=20 write to BT HQ in London to the their CEO (his name and lo= cation can=20 be found with a bit of research) and tell him what you thi= nk of his=20 outfit. I know from experience he does not like receiving= this kind=20 of letter. You may have your ISP as Joe Blogs Internet Pro= vider dot=20 Com but in reality it is all provided by BT they own= the final=20 mile and the exchange ...... legal niceties to one side it= is a=20 fact.
If you get a good Broad Band data rate of= say 4/8mb/s=20 your transmissions on LF/MF will only slightly degrad= e your=20 ADSL but if like me on the end of 7.5km of copper its only= 1/1.5mb/s=20 on a very good day, RF will wipe out your ADSL for a week= or more.=20 So without a lot of letter writing to BT and ang= ry phone=20 calls your ASDL will not return to original speed..
 
To maintain a usable data rate on Broad Band here I= can not use=20 136 or 500kc/s above a few Milli Watts at TX output about= =20 1 Watt on 160m 80 about 50Watts and on 60m and=20 above 100Watts (possibly more but not tested yet). Al= so the=20 longer you stay on the worst the speed degrades.My guess= is with=20 ADSL2 having a much wider bandwidth the problem for Amateu= rs will=20 extend further up the spectrum than shown above.
 
Hope you are not in my situation....... Oh and don't= believe=20 all this Fibre stuff. Open Reach have told me that on= e reason=20 why Fibre is not being rolled out like the Virgin setup is= that=20 there are only a few BT people capable of working with Fib= re. This=20 is the reason why BT is Wedded to copper wire. So we= locally=20 have Internet breakdowns owing to Junkies and the like rip= ping the=20 Copper cables out of BT ducting to pay for drugs= ...=20 Bedfordshire has had Internet disconnections for days owin= g to this=20 phenomenon. So along with cable theft and the lack of trai= ned staff=20 a proper interference free Broad Band coverage using= =20 fibre in this country is looking particularly bleak.<= /DIV>
 
Good luck!

73 es GL= =20 petefmt

I support www.NotSpotTelecom.Com your commu= nity Telco=20 / ISP.

--- On Thu, 25/11/10, Graham=20 <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

From:=20 Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: LF:= Any ADSL2=20 BBand router / RF proof ?
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Thursday, 25 Novem= ber, 2010,=20 22:06

Any  ADSL2 = BBand router /=20 RF proof ?
 
Just upgraded to = ADSL2 =20 with a  orange  net-gear   router/wi= fi =20 router, now   15  watts  on  16= 0 =20 kills  the  connection 
 
router is in the = same location=20 as  the old  edimax , which  kept running=  =20 with  200 watts  on 500 K  and  400= on Hf=20
 
? any  RF pro= of =20 ADSL2  on the  market >
 
Tnx -=20 G.. 





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