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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id z14si14646165wjr.144.2014.02.18.05.58.27 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 05:58:28 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@btinternet.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WFl3o-00040W-OD for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:50:08 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WFl3n-00040N-VP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:50:07 +0000 Received: from smtpout06.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk ([65.20.0.126]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1WFl3l-00005u-6O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:50:06 +0000 X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A090208.53036509.01C7,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=13/97,refid=2.7.2:2014.2.10.111218:17:13.296,ip=,rules=__HAS_MSGID, __SANE_MSGID, MSGID_32HEX_LC, INVALID_MSGID_NO_FQDN, __MSGID_32HEX, __HAS_FROM, __PHISH_FROM2, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL_FROM, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY, __CTYPE_MULTIPART, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __ANY_URI, __FRAUD_BODY_WEBMAIL, __CP_URI_IN_BODY, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE, SUPERLONG_LINE, __HTML_FONT_BLUE, __HAS_HTML, HTML_NO_HTTP, BODY_SIZE_10000_PLUS, __MIME_HTML, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML, __STYLE_RATWARE_NEG, __URI_NS, HTML_50_70, __PHISH_FROM, __OUTLOOK_MUA, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Received: from gnat (81.151.237.44) by smtpout06.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (8.6.100.99.10223) (authenticated as alan.melia@btinternet.com) id 52F0E43800E101D7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:50:00 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1392731405; bh=EAfkwHEAo72xXNjPzU5vf6JtkhpJKUgZBpKsJCCmFHY=; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer; b=cQCISzznMY9YyrkDxgdbGawq8RuLtx9zsiTNDphzogtaWlMqT9zUIjq/UqklfQ/T17Bubk0B/o/Hxwiynl1tlmILuEjhIGTv+MF3uw6do05ykjhYbT0Ure54qf3smwkW9m7QQnClpPtG7ojSFPvIxb4TL+iht0ieoamwbClbVng= Message-ID: <99BF4BE38FD64986952A7E157877F05C@gnat> From: "Alan Melia" To: References: <8D0FAC217BC15F8-964-A2A@webmail-d130.sysops.aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 13:50:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Markus yes I agree in this case it is unlikely to be much of a propagation effect around Europe. As I said the severity of the event was quite low. However lighning static can be propagated from a very great distance over multiple hops so a small amount of absorbtion due to electron precipitation could reduce say Southern Hemisphere static a lot. Laurence's VLF grabber does indicate attenuation of Mil signals at extreme range during geomag events. This would perhaps explain why short range signals suffer less. It might not mean that extreme propagation is better but lower local noise might compensate. It could be a case of comparing signals with noise from radically different ranges. The proper understanding and discussion like this might help to make best use of of the effect. :-)) [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.20.0.126 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 9286c42f36aec8c717df8c33686f6171 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Noise level low at 8270 :-) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01CF2CB0.5198D330" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CF2CB0.5198D330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Markus yes I agree in this case it is unlikely to be much of a = propagation effect around Europe. As I said the severity of the event = was quite low. However lighning static can be propagated from a very = great distance over multiple hops so a small amount of absorbtion due to = electron precipitation could reduce say Southern Hemisphere static a = lot. Laurence's VLF grabber does indicate attenuation of Mil signals at = extreme range during geomag events. This would perhaps explain why short = range signals suffer less. It might not mean that extreme propagation is = better but lower local noise might compensate. It could be a case of = comparing signals with noise from radically different ranges. The proper = understanding and discussion like this might help to make best use of of = the effect. :-)) Best Wishes Alan=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:11 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Noise level low at 8270 :-) Hi Alan, Peter, I doubt that there is such a thing as "generally weak propagation" on = these low frequencies, at least probably not for intra-European ranges. = Of course we do see modulations of ionospheric ceiling height during = SID's. But opposed to LF and MF, increased D-layer ionisation will = probably not have the effect of an absorber beneath the reflecting = E-layer. Looking at the grabbers, Russian Alpha and MSK signals appear = no weaker than at other times. So the most likely cause for low = background noise would be favourable weather with less lightning = activity around Europe. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Alan Melia An: rsgb_lf_group Verschickt: Mo, 17 Feb 2014 9:42 pm Betreff: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Noise level low at 8270 :-) Hi Peter it might be that simple, or it might be a very complicated = mixture :-)) yes static should be low at the moment (I havent looked at = the Eu lighning charts) I could also be that your local car-repairer is = off work with 'flu, though this event is obviously far wider than just = local conditions, now we have a wider range of grabbers to sample for = conditions. It is interesting because I would not expect the current = geomagnetic conditions to have made that much difference......but it is = interesting to ask the questions :-)) The only solution is try it and = see if it IS better. Good Luck Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: PA1SDB, Peter=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 7:31 PM Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: RE: Noise level low at 8270 :-) Hello Alan, Tnx for info ! It is so simple, but I did not thought about this. I thought it has = more to do with low lightning levels or static's. It is still difficult for me to connect a link between audio = frequency's and propagation... 73's, Peter. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Melia=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 6:54 PM Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: Noise level low at 8270 :-) You need to be careful in what you interpret from this! the noise = may be low because the propagation is rubbish :-)) The conditions dont = necessarily support this but we have just had a minor storm Kp=3D5 and = the Dst was depressed to -60nT.=20 I remember early on, on 136kHz when we thought that the best time = for DX would be around dawn.......except it turned out that the morning = and evening quiet periods were poor propagation periods as well. You = need a signal to determine S/N :-)) particularly if N is changing. Alan G3NYK =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: PA1SDB, Peter=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 6:19 PM Subject: LF: Re: RE: Noise level low at 8270 :-) Hello Bob, Interesting to see that the low noise today is at least "Europe = wide" :-) Perhaps even Worldwide ??? I wonder if you publish your spectogram's online somewhere ? I think I did not see you in a 'grabber' list somewhere... Unfortunately I don't see anything right now at 8270.014 in your = spectogram. I think to early to see first spikes :-) First sign here today was at 16:20 UTC. 73's, Peter - PA1SDB www.qsl.net/pa1sdb ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bohuslav Coufal=20 To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'=20 Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 3:47 PM Subject: LF: RE: Noise level low at 8270 :-) Me too = https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4wx1dukmctmhxh/Mereni-8270-last.bmp 73, Bob., OK2BUM From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of PA1SDB, Peter Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 4:40 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Noise level low at 8270 :-) Hi ! Low noise at http://www.ok2bvg.cz/vlfgrabber/ ! Btw, here to :-) 73's, Peter - PA1SDB www.qsl.net/pa1sdb ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CF2CB0.5198D330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Hi Markus yes I agree in this case it = is unlikely=20 to be much of a propagation effect around Europe. As I said the severity = of the=20 event was quite low. However lighning static can be propagated from = a very=20 great distance over multiple hops so a small amount of absorbtion due to = electron precipitation could reduce say Southern Hemisphere static a = lot.=20 Laurence's VLF grabber does indicate attenuation of Mil signals at = extreme range=20 during geomag events. This would perhaps explain why short range signals = suffer=20 less. It might not mean that extreme propagation is better but = lower local=20 noise might compensate. It could be a case of comparing signals with = noise from=20 radically different ranges. The proper understanding and discussion like = this=20 might help to make best use of of the effect. :-))
 
Best Wishes
Alan 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, = 2014 1:11=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Re: = Re: RE:=20 Noise level low at 8270 :-)

Hi Alan, Peter,
 
I doubt = that there=20 is such a thing as "generally weak propagation" on these low=20 frequencies, at least probably not for intra-European = ranges. Of=20 course we do see modulations of ionospheric ceiling = height during=20 SID's. But opposed to LF and MF, increased D-layer ionisation = will=20 probably not have the effect of an absorber beneath the = reflecting=20 E-layer. Looking at the grabbers, Russian Alpha and MSK=20 signals appear no weaker than at other times. So the = most=20 likely cause for low background noise would be favourable weather = with=20 less lightning activity around Europe.
 
Best = 73,
Markus=20 (DF6NM)
 

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Alan = Melia=20 <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
An: rsgb_lf_group=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Mo, 17 Feb 2014 = 9:42=20 pm
Betreff: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Noise level low at 8270 = :-)

Hi Peter it might be that simple, or = it might be=20 a very complicated mixture :-)) yes static should be low at the moment = (I=20 havent looked at the Eu lighning charts) I could also be that your = local=20 car-repairer is off work with 'flu, though this event is obviously far = wider=20 than just local conditions, now we have a wider range of grabbers to = sample=20 for conditions. It is interesting because I would not expect the = current=20 geomagnetic conditions to have made that much difference......but it = is=20 interesting to ask the questions :-)) The only solution is try it and = see if=20 it IS better.
 
Good Luck
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 PA1SDB, = Peter=20
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Monday, February 17, = 2014 7:31=20 PM
Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: RE: = Noise=20 level low at 8270 :-)

Hello Alan,
Tnx for info !
It is so simple, but I did = not thought=20 about this. I thought it has more to do with low lightning levels or = static's.
It is still difficult for me to = connect a link=20 between audio frequency's and propagation...
 
73's, Peter.
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Alan Melia
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Monday, February 17, = 2014 6:54=20 PM
Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: = Noise level=20 low at 8270 :-)

You need to be careful in what = you interpret=20 from this! the noise may be low because the propagation is rubbish = :-))  The conditions dont necessarily support this but we = have just=20 had a minor storm Kp=3D5 and the Dst was depressed to -60nT. =
 
I remember early on, on 136kHz = when we=20 thought that the best time for DX would be around = dawn.......except it=20 turned out that the morning and evening quiet periods were poor=20 propagation periods as well.  You need a signal to=20 determine S/N :-)) particularly if N is = changing.
 
Alan
G3NYK
 
 
  
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 PA1SDB,=20 Peter
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Monday, February = 17, 2014=20 6:19 PM
Subject: LF: Re: RE: = Noise level=20 low at 8270 :-)

Hello Bob,
Interesting to see that the low noise = today is=20 at least "Europe wide" :-)
Perhaps even Worldwide = ???
 
I wonder if you publish your = spectogram's online=20 somewhere ?
I think I did not see you in a = 'grabber' list=20 somewhere...
 
Unfortunately I don't see anything = right now at=20 8270.014 in your spectogram.
I think to early to see first spikes=20 :-)
 
First sign here today was at = 16:20=20 UTC.
 
73's, Peter - PA1SDB
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Bohuslav=20 Coufal
To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org'=20
Sent: Monday, February = 17, 2014=20 3:47 PM
Subject: LF: RE: Noise = level low=20 at 8270 :-)

Me=20 too https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4wx1dukmctmhxh/Mereni-8270-las= t.bmp
 
73,
 
Bob.,=20 OK2BUM
 
From: = owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org]=20 On Behalf Of PA1SDB, Peter
Sent: Monday, = February 17,=20 2014 4:40 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Subject:=20 LF: Noise level low at 8270 :-)
 
Hi = !
 
Low noise at http://www.ok2bvg.cz/vlfgrabber/ !
<= /DIV>
 
Btw, here to=20 :-)
 
73's, Peter -=20 PA1SDB
 
www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
 
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