Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.75]) by air-ma01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMA012-b4f04cd45de0390; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 15:41:20 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D57E7380000DF; Fri, 5 Nov 2010 15:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PES7Y-0002P7-E6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 19:38:44 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PES7X-0002Oy-NH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 19:38:43 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.128]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PES7V-0004n6-RJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Nov 2010 19:38:43 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3417.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1B4ED1C00088 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2010 20:38:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3417.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 0E7301C00089 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2010 20:38:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.35.126]) by mwinf3417.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 4EDBE1C00088 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2010 20:38:33 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20101105193833323.4EDBE1C00088@mwinf3417.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <98C385C1FD3D465D8F6257E053B25DD3@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <0A4299B81A1F4A4A936D253AF4EFC75D@AGB>,<003b01cb7d10$b3554610$19ffd230$@com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 19:38:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 101105-0, 05/11/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: IMO SYNOPTIC was Re: LF: The Wideband Noise Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01CB7D21.078105C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_FONTCOLOR_RED, HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404b4cd45dde1485 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CB7D21.078105C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks like a second ex RO Dreamer band , 4 Khz with EU hams gettin= g 100 Hz data mode ? Firstly all the coast is covered by VHF to 30 + miles out , li= nked aprs and radar plots give position and ship date , gps has rep= laced console & MF beacons , secondly, Imarsat and auto-hf have repl= aced the Radio operators , and nav-text relays endless data on ch= annel buoys with lights out , rig moves , and no go areas for gun= nery practice , with the odd gale warning oh and the odd bit of ca= rgo adrift , on its way to Cornwall =20 So what on earth is the system going to relay, that the existing= system (systems) is/are not doing at the moment , and at 300/400= miles range who cares , the ship will more likely be tied up at= the destination port and the crew ashore in the pub ..=20 And 2 slots as well simplex broadcast only ... what nonsense ...= Just a 'dead dog' data system with rigamortis ...=20 G.=20 From: Rik Strobbe=20 Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 6:14 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: IMO SYNOPTIC was Re: LF: The Wideband Noise "The estimated coverage area from shore is approximately 320 nautical= miles with a radiated power of 1 kW and 400 nautical miles with a rad= iated power of 5 kW." This seems a very conservative estimation to me. I can hear the stronger G-stations (ERP 1-10W) day and night with soli= d copy at similar distances (with a partly land path). 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T PS: the "bubbles" arround 500kHz are good copy here, but the signal se= ems to appear/disappear all the tile ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org] namens Terry GW0EZY [gw0ezy@sky.com] Verzonden: vrijdag 5 november 2010 18:41 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: IMO SYNOPTIC was Re: LF: The Wideband Noise I guess these tests relate to a proposed new system being discussed in= ITU Working Party 5B: PROPOSED MODIFICATIONS TO PRELIMINARY DRAFT NEW REPORT ITU-R M.[500 kHz] Utilization of the 495-505 kHz band by the maritime mobile service for the digital broadcasting (from shore-to-ships) of information related to safety and security The draft new report has contributions from France and USA. Some extra= cts from the documents: This preliminary draft Report provides information on a digital broadc= asting system working in the 500 kHz band. This system is intended to be used= to broadcast from shore to ships information related to navigational and meteorological warnings, urgent information and other information rela= ted to safety and security. The system will utilize the band 495-505 kHz and= have the same coverage area as the current NAVTEX system operating at 490= kHz and 518 kHz. New digital technology provides a greatly improved data throu= ghput from that provided by the current NAVTEX system. It also provides prot= ection to the incumbent NAVTEX system. This system will operate in a manner similar to the current NAVTEX sys= tem. The coast stations will be spaced along the coast approximately [500] nautical miles apart. All the transmitters on a coast will share the= 10 kHz channel by transmitting in a specific time slot. An example of time sl= ot allocations for a network of 500 kHz broadcast transmitters for the At= lantic coast of Europe is based on 3-minute slots of a 60 minute cycle. There= is also discussion on using 495-500 kHz and 500 - 505 kHz as two slots fo= r a "permanent mode" The radiated power from the regional coast station transmitter should= be what is sufficient to cover the intended service area of that coast st= ation. The power would be decreased at night during periods of better r.f. propagation. The estimated coverage area from shore is approximately= 320 nautical miles with a radiated power of 1 kW and 400 nautical miles wi= th a radiated power of 5 kW. The modulation is of type OFDM with N-QAM. An example of 64-QAM @ 47.4 kbps.system has a data rate of 100 bit/second= with a 300 Hz channel. This system would have a data rate of up to 47 400 bits/second with a 10 kHz channel. A transmitter site in France is mentioned in the report: Pointe de Cor= sen coordinates: 48.414444 N, 4.794444 W. Google Earth shows some sort of installation there. 73 Terry GW0EZY ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CB7D21.078105C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Looks like a  second ex RO  = ; Dreamer band=20 ,  4 Khz with EU hams getting  100 Hz data  mode ?
 
Firstly  all  the  coa= st is covered=20 by  VHF  to  30  + miles out ,  linked aprs&n= bsp; and=20 radar plots give position  and ship  date , gps has=20 replaced console &  MF beacons , secondly, Imarsat= and=20 auto-hf  have replaced the  Radio operators , and nav-text= =20 relays   endless  data  on channel buoys with = ; lights=20 out , rig moves , and  no go  areas  for  gunnery= practice ,=20 with the  odd  gale warning oh and the  odd bit of=  =20 cargo  adrift , on its way  to  Cornwall  &nb= sp;=20
 
So what  on earth  is the&n= bsp; system=20 going to  relay, that  the  existing  system = (systems)=20 is/are not  doing   at the  moment , and at= =20 300/400  miles range who  cares , the  ship = will more=20 likely  be tied  up at the  destination  port = ; and=20 the  crew  ashore in the  pub ..
 
And  2 slots  as well = simplex=20 broadcast only  ...  what nonsense ...  Just a  'dead dog' data  system=  with=20 rigamortis  ...
 
G.

Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 6:14 PM
Subject: RE: IMO SYNOPTIC was Re: LF: The Wideband=20 Noise

"The estimated coverage area from shore is ap= proximately=20 320 nautical miles with a radiated power of 1 kW and 400 nautical mile= s with a=20 radiated power of 5 kW."

This seems a very conservative estimation to me.

I can hear the stronger G-stations= (ERP 1-10W)=20 day and night with solid copy at similar distances (with a partly land= =20 path).

 

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

 

PS: the "bubbles" arround 500kHz are= good copy=20 here, but the signal seems to appear/disappear all the tile


________________________________________
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ] namens=20 Terry GW0EZY [gw0ezy@sky.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 5 november 2010=20 18:41
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: IMO SYNOP= TIC was=20 Re: LF: The Wideband Noise

I guess these tests relate to a prop= osed new=20 system being discussed in ITU
Working Party 5B:

PROPOSED MOD= IFICATIONS=20 TO PRELIMINARY DRAFT NEW
REPORT ITU-R M.[500 kHz]
Utilization of= the=20 495-505 kHz band by the maritime mobile
service for the digital bro= adcasting=20 (from shore-to-ships)
of information related to safety and=20 security

The draft new report has contributions from France and= USA. Some=20 extracts
from the documents:

This preliminary draft Report= provides=20 information on a digital broadcasting
system working in the 500 kHz= band.=20 This system is intended to be used to
broadcast from shore to ships= =20 information related to navigational and
meteorological warnings, ur= gent=20 information and other information related to
safety and security.= The system=20 will utilize the band 495-505 kHz and have
the same coverage area= as the=20 current NAVTEX system operating at 490 kHz and
518 kHz. New digital= =20 technology provides a greatly improved data throughput
from that pr= ovided by=20 the current NAVTEX system. It also provides protection
to the incum= bent=20 NAVTEX system.

This system will operate in a manner similar to= the=20 current NAVTEX system.
The coast stations will be spaced along the= coast=20 approximately [500]
nautical miles apart. All the transmitters on= a coast=20 will share the 10 kHz
channel by transmitting in a specific time sl= ot. An=20 example of time slot
allocations for a network of 500 kHz broadcast= =20 transmitters for the Atlantic
coast of Europe is based on 3-minute= slots of a=20 60 minute cycle. There is
also discussion on using 495-500 kHz and= 500 - 505=20 kHz as two slots for a
"permanent mode"

The radiated power= from the=20 regional coast station transmitter should be
what is sufficient to= cover the=20 intended service area of that coast station.
The power would be dec= reased at=20 night during periods of better r.f.
propagation. The estimated cove= rage area=20 from shore is approximately 320
nautical miles with a radiated powe= r of 1 kW=20 and 400 nautical miles with a
radiated power of 5 kW. The modulatio= n is of=20 type OFDM with N-QAM. An
example of 64-QAM @ 47.4 kbps.system has= a data rate=20 of 100 bit/second with
a 300 Hz channel. This system would have a= data rate=20 of up to 47 400
bits/second with a 10 kHz channel.

A transmi= tter site=20 in France is mentioned in the report: Pointe de Corsen
coordinates:= 48.414444=20 N, 4.794444 W. Google Earth shows some sort of
installation there.<= BR>
73=20 Terry GW0EZY



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