Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3BED238000098; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 17:26:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Skihb-0003Rb-9v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:26:07 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Skiha-0003RL-Mr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:26:06 +0100 Received: from smtpout3.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.59] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SkihY-0000SW-DO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:26:05 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.45.202]) by mwinf5d41 with ME id UMS21j0074MjVGq03MS279; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:26:03 +0200 Message-ID: <956CE2B53E6E4B29B504359B77C9DBB3@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <00a901cd563a$b02b6be0$0200a8c0@boxa> <86E82E780CF0405BB85C38C665DF38B0@AGB> In-Reply-To: <86E82E780CF0405BB85C38C665DF38B0@AGB> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:26:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Antivirus: avast! 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Content preview: Ringing , that should be ..... miss 2 throws of the dice : ( From: Graham Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:23 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.59 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 91e1efbff209cbddb14bc9e018c2cfe8 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01CD5646.2A9CF000" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:516029472:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40914fee1d97668a X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01CD5646.2A9CF000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ringing , that should be ..... miss 2 throws of the dice : ( From: Graham=20 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:23 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters Yes an exciting game of 'Techno-Guess' HiHi What is the stated pass band ripple ?=20 Is that plot 3 dB / 50% or 6 dB ?=20 Should there be a standing mA feed ? which may dampen the = device a bit , stop it wringing ? From: Mike=20 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:03 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: RE: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters Stefan=20 Have you included the 300pF capacitor (I do not read German) and not = sure if it is the same on both ends? I would expect the launch circuit needs a cap both ends. Mike G3JVL -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Stefan Sch=E4fer Sent: 29 June 2012 21:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters 4th try...=20 -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Betreff: Help needed, mechanical = filters=20 Datum: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:58:41 +0200=20 Von: Stefan Sch=E4fer =20 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 MF, I have bought a mechanical filter which has a center frequency of 473=20 kHz. It is available at=20 http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/html/body_hf-spezialbauteile.html=20 (scroll down to FZ 01 / FZ 02). I have both types and just measured the=20 frequency response. There is a data sheet as well which states the=20 impedances to be connected to the wires. There is even a datasheet at=20 http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/assets/applets/FZ_01.pdf All in all it looks very interesting and the slopes are really very=20 sharp. However there is a passband ripple of 10 dB which is very very=20 high. See the image:=20 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/Mechanisches%20Filter%20473%20kHz.pn= g So what have i done wrong? Or is it that bad? The input signal is connected on the left side between the red and green = wire. The output signal is taken from the right side on the red and=20 green wire too. It looks as if each side has a coil on the green and red = wire, with a tap at the yellow wire. Helpful was this image from the web=20 http://www.amateurfunkmuseum.de/AFM_321b-Dateien/image006.jpg which=20 shows a similar filter. I have connected a resistor of 18 kOhm to the=20 output and a 500 Ohm resistor in series to the signal generator, as=20 stated in the datasheet. But the ripple does not change. Any ideas or suggestions? Guess for what i will need the filter! :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: 2433.1.1/5098 - Release Date: = 06/29/12 07:34:00 ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01CD5646.2A9CF000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ringing  , that  should  be  ..... miss  = 2 =20 throws  of the  dice   : (

From: Graham
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical=20 filters

Yes  an exciting  game  of  = 'Techno-Guess'  =20  HiHi
 
What  is the  stated  pass  band  = ripple  ?=20
 
Is that  plot   3 dB / 50% or   6 dB ? =
 
Should  there  be a  standing  mA  = feed  ?=20 which  may  dampen the  device  a  bit  ,=20 stop  it  wringing ?

From: Mike
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:03 PM
Subject: LF: RE: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical=20 filters

Stefan=20
Have=20 you included the 300pF capacitor (I do not read German) and not sure if = it is=20 the same on both ends?
I=20 would expect the launch circuit needs a cap both = ends.
Mike=20 G3JVL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer
Sent: 29 June 2012 21:27
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Subject:=20 LF: Fwd: Help needed, mechanical filters

4th = try...=20

-------- Original-Nachricht --------=20
Betreff: Help needed, mechanical filters
Datum: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 20:58:41 +0200
Von: Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@iup.uni-heide= lberg.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= 


MF,

I have bought a mechanical filter which has a center frequency of 473=20
kHz. It is available at=20
http://www.oppermann-electronic.de/html/body_hf-spezialbauteile.html=
=20
(scroll down to FZ 01 / FZ 02). I have both types and just measured the=20
frequency response. There is a data sheet as well which states the=20
impedances to be connected to the wires.
There is even a datasheet at=20
http=
://www.oppermann-electronic.de/assets/applets/FZ_01.pdf

All in all it looks very interesting and the slopes are really very=20
sharp. However there is a passband ripple of 10 dB which is very very=20
high. See the image:=20
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/MF/Mechanisches%20Filter%204=
73%20kHz.png

So what have i done wrong?  Or is it that bad?

The input signal is connected on the left side between the red and green =

wire. The output signal is taken from the right side on the red and=20
green wire too. It looks as if each side has a coil on the green and red =

wire, with a tap at the yellow wire.
Helpful was this image from the web=20
ht=
tp://www.amateurfunkmuseum.de/AFM_321b-Dateien/image006.jpg which=20
shows a similar filter. I have connected a resistor of 18 kOhm to the=20
output and a 500 Ohm resistor in series to the signal generator, as=20
stated in the datasheet. But the ripple does not change.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Guess for what i will need the filter! :-)

73, Stefan/DK7FC

No virus found in this incoming = message.
Checked=20 by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.930 / Virus Database: = 2433.1.1/5098 -=20 Release Date: 06/29/12 = 07:34:00

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