Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D6C9F3800009B; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 12:47:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Tm6c4-0003mI-2h for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 17:42:24 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Tm6c3-0003m9-7X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 17:42:23 +0000 Received: from nm2-vm0.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([212.82.108.92]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Tm6c0-0005KT-5P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2012 17:42:22 +0000 Received: from [212.82.108.229] by nm2.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2012 17:41:59 -0000 Received: from [217.146.189.76] by tm2.bt.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2012 17:41:59 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp826.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2012 17:41:59 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1356111719; bh=aC73uNIKWfaRhYobtpIRx8oO4z5k92HLZhE6nsD9b5g=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=X5aymHbasepWfxJApjt5dtgTVHfF1/axebqBuIg7sW01CzN33RjL+bCS9+7PtJBzxJ3GVVZkYQSVD0BAGV8di2d6CfTaJfgIVRJ5TElh6AvnIBRkTYL5coOxuOBsrgnGAHErUhA7ERjCjwVqhmRMn6lsUU8m6loPTxeWPPPlF7w= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 334448.83183.bm@smtp826.mail.ird.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: YpHRgHsVM1kJTz6LB4IFTKfswAx3d_hHMTidkxGNrwnrOtw pULnfTAAMCBdH6VIvlcCA69eyotAtia2Np1ZIvh8CLvR.SOzThDOV_BQJOZs M5TW7ZkiJ7Jy4bYKvou1Vz6BvCs92CJpTyvAuOtvFKsjum7uchZEYD1YTost 7ghslpQdn1EBBnFSQAHGxr6XSFHGNsKUNCgZz3.WzHb6PWIxSp1lPgLqiyp2 yUX4AUjd5qRWAIQodAxlLzXmwYZLdyuYDE3McszB6UtxHEqDWYpmKN7r27dh 8tyUdL.gLAwMJR9gUfMHM2Pr3LlkbGXNQ2AZb2M3Yuk0IxoHRfVUesOYBy.I h8K.0p0dSi7BOBHIuZ2xpZ5PQ5fiww67Vzm4Z0el19AqcDEXTY0HqccR6i7g J5VT0eykSMNKRDyqCuCTQY2xhjM1IUoqm9.fYeSM2HrLReASH5zago.rmcl8 tPyebMWiq1oIxcpVHuazXNMEhScGGPnJRI.5aqOIppa39YIT0CRxErZYlrEQ IOo8SZau41ex8BB3.4sm3Lul0wo0ewzjxRMWDk6CfFB4FRWnYW3DYFKEtggt 4qt4ZRz9MJpzrU6mMQ5_XWAulqIbLDsCwmz9Y_PRDvj_wV.TuhFgcyOgFk7t QjlkRakD3sgsiWa_hmQBc4vv400ogVw-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: .u8e2g.swBByWKjbpA3lR6Fw.2ZEQrJJpVsTSrpXLCffsPaCEMY- Received: from IBM7FFA209F07C (c.ashby435@81.132.194.253 with login) by smtp826.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2012 09:41:59 -0800 PST Message-ID: <9564DA1C294C40D28AE119ECC250FB32@IBM7FFA209F07C> From: "Chris" To: References: <676C5093-3A16-4528-85CD-46FAD16ADDD3@dk8kw.de> <1356093445.18051.YahooMailNeo@web133203.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <50D45DF1.3030109@darc.de> <1356110466.47091.YahooMailNeo@web133201.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 17:41:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Pete, I think the main requirement band plan wise is knowing which section to monitor for QRSS and other narrow modes, as one is restricted to quite a narrow bandwidth, very narrow with the slower QRSS, of course. Incidentally, how did you know 42 NoVs had been issued for the new band? I cannot find this info on the RSGB website, but not sure where to look.... Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent. ----- Original Message ----- From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 5:21 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 477 NOV What Modes ? [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.82.108.92 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines X-Scan-Signature: f96cf275b647c6518ccd6045bf68c737 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 477 NOV What Modes ? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CDDFA2.7A49B800" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.3 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK, FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600b50d4a0bb59a0 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CDDFA2.7A49B800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete, I think the main requirement band plan wise is knowing which = section to monitor for QRSS and other narrow modes, as one is restricted = to quite a narrow bandwidth, very narrow with the slower QRSS, of = course. Incidentally, how did you know 42 NoVs had been issued for the new band? = I cannot find this info on the RSGB website, but not sure where to = look.... Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 5:21 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 477 NOV What Modes ? Hi Chris=20 Just seen the dreaded words "Band Plan" I think there are some who = would not like this, me included. The Band plan is the RSGB Police-mans = weapon of choice. Four meters has gone from a friendly rub along band to = a band with abusive RSGB Band Plan individuals that are never heard in = QSO's but come out of the wood-work and jam the channel in the name of = the Band Plans.=20 So nailing my colours firmly to the mast I say no band plan (well not = written in stone anyway). I have even had unsolicited e-mails from = Amateurs purporting to be RSGB officials who ought to know better. If = OFCOM decree some form of plan like avoiding NDBs and the like well OK = but they are the only authority that I am prepared to obey apart from a = common sense avoidance of deliberate interference something lost on the = channel jammers on VHF! 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Stefan Endemann To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, 21 December 2012, 13:02 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 477 NOV What Modes ? Hi Pete and Geri, Codec2 might be a viable medium term solution for real-time = compression of speech for narrow band communication (http://codec2.org/). There is also an interesting presentation about Codec2 by David Rowe = on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DKsywWf8dQgU 73 Stefan, DJ2SEA -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: LF: Re: 477 NOV What Modes ? From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri Dec 21 2012 13:37:25 GMT+0100 > Hi again Geri > =20 > I remember the SM stns using normal SSB on a beacon QRG 505 +/-. a > couple of years ago but not compressed. > =20 > I was thinking that there must be a method or algorithm that has a = look > up table of "diphones" and is able to utilise the repetitive = sounds, > spaces and diphones of the language in use (hard luck German has = over > 2500 Spanish has 800). Thus a real time narrow band communication > channel carrying only pointing data would result. The outcome will > probably be a cross between Donald Duck and Stephen Hawking in a = channel > of a few Hz? Any mileage (sorry Kilometreage) in the idea? > Just thought to make the sound like the sender there could be a = real > time slowed down session of key words to build the diphone library = prior > to the contact so the following QSO would sound nearly normal. = This > library would build over time so the system training would only = need one > session for a particular stn then on future QSOs a call sign entry = would > only be needed...... better stop now I am scaring myself. Maybe = get it > all on one PIC...... not? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_synthesis > =20 > 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX >=20 > *From:* Holger 'Geri' DK8KW DI2BO W1KW > *To:* "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" = > *Cc:* "" = > *Sent:* Friday, 21 December 2012, 11:16 > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 477 NOV What Modes ? >=20 > Markus and I once had a successful "Slow SSB" QSO on 137 kHz = years > ago in our German 800 Hz bandwidth limitation. We slowed down = normal > voice four times, transmitted it over SSB and expanded it again = by > reversing the process ... using the full 7 kHz would make a = fine AM > signal, indeed ... perhaps even a low deviation FM signal would = do? >=20 > Be creative, by 73 >=20 > Geri, DK8KW >=20 > m > On 21.12.2012, at 10:34, "Chris" > wrote: >=20 >> All modes, as per the licence and 136/7 band. >> Roger, yes, a couple of us are thinking about some QRP AM = across >> town (subject to non QRM to other locals), and why not? >> Some sort of agreed band plan would be helpful ASAP as well. >> My two NoVs were dated 20th. December, but it does say 'Date = of >> Issue', which isn't the same as 'Date of Commencement', 'With >> Effect From' or whatever. It was clear from the Ofcom site = where >> the link was that the NoV comes into effect on 1st. January. >> Vy 73, Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Graham >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 20, 2012 5:04 PM >> *Subject:* LF: 477 NOV What Modes ? >> >> Starting 1/1/13 .. but What Modes non listed , only = =20 >> the power ?? >> =20 >> G.. >> >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CDDFA2.7A49B800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pete, I think the main requirement band = plan wise=20 is knowing which section to monitor for QRSS and other narrow modes, as = one is=20 restricted to quite a narrow bandwidth, very narrow with the slower = QRSS, of=20 course.
Incidentally, how did you know 42 NoVs = had been=20 issued for the new band? I cannot find this info on the RSGB website, = but not=20 sure where to look....
Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, = Kent.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 M0FMT
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 = 5:21=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 477 NOV = What Modes=20 ?

Hi Chris
 
Just seen the dreaded words "Band Plan" I think there are = some who=20 would not like this, me included. The Band plan is the RSGB Police-mans weapon of choice. Four = meters=20 has gone from a friendly rub along band to a band with abusive RSGB = Band Plan=20 individuals that are never heard in QSO's = but come=20 out of the wood-work and jam the channel in the name of the Band = Plans.=20
 
So nailing my colours firmly to the mast I say no band plan = (well=20 not written in stone anyway). I have even had unsolicited e-mails from Amateurs = purporting=20 to be RSGB officials who ought to know better. If OFCOM decree some = form of=20 plan like avoiding NDBs and the like well OK but they are the only = authority=20 that I am prepared to obey apart from a common sense avoidance of = deliberate=20 interference something lost = on the=20 channel jammers on VHF!
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
 =20
From: Stefan Endemann=20 <dj2sea@darc.de>
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Friday, 21 December = 2012,=20 13:02
Subject: = Re: LF: Re:=20 477 NOV What Modes ?

Hi Pete and = Geri,

Codec2=20 might be a viable medium term solution for real-time = compression
of=20 speech for narrow band communication (http://codec2.org/).

There is also an = interesting=20 presentation about Codec2 by David Rowe on
youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DKsywWf8dQgU

7= 3=20 Stefan, DJ2SEA

-------- Original Message  = --------
Subject:=20 Re: LF: Re: 477  NOV  What Modes  ?
From: M0FMT = <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org>
Date:=20 Fri Dec 21 2012 13:37:25 GMT+0100

> Hi again = Geri
> =20
> I remember the SM stns using normal SSB on a beacon QRG 505 = +/-.=20 a
> couple of years ago but not compressed.
>  =
> I=20 was thinking that there must be a method or algorithm that has a=20 look
> up table of "diphones" and is able to utilise the = repetitive=20 sounds,
> spaces and diphones of the language in use (hard = luck German=20 has over
> 2500 Spanish has 800). Thus a real time narrow band = communication
> channel carrying only pointing data would = result. The=20 outcome will
> probably be a cross between Donald Duck and = Stephen=20 Hawking in a channel
> of a few Hz? Any mileage (sorry = Kilometreage)=20 in the idea?
> Just thought to make the sound like the sender = there=20 could be a real
> time slowed down session of key words to = build the=20 diphone library prior
> to the contact so the following QSO = would=20 sound nearly normal. This
> library would build over time so = the=20 system training would only need one
> session for a particular = stn=20 then on future QSOs a call sign entry would
> only be = needed......=20 better stop now I am scaring myself. Maybe get it
> all on one = PIC...... not?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_synthesis
>=  =20
> 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
>
>    = *From:*=20 Holger 'Geri' DK8KW DI2BO W1KW <geri@dk8kw.de>
>  =  =20 *To:* "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org"=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org>
> =20   *Cc:* "<rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org>"=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org>
> =20   *Sent:* Friday, 21 December 2012, 11:16
>   =20 *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 477 NOV What Modes ?
>
>  =  =20 Markus and I once had a successful "Slow SSB" QSO on 137 kHz=20 years
>    ago in our German 800 Hz bandwidth = limitation. We=20 slowed down normal
>    voice four times, = transmitted it=20 over SSB and expanded it again by
>    reversing the = process=20 ... using the full 7 kHz would make a fine AM
>    = signal,=20 indeed ... perhaps even a low deviation FM signal would do?
>=20
>    Be creative, by 73
>
>  =   Geri,=20 DK8KW
>
>    m
>    On = 21.12.2012, at=20 10:34, "Chris" <c.ashby435@btinternet.com
> =20   <mailto:c.ashby435@btinternet.com>>=20 wrote:
>
>>    All modes, as per the = licence and=20 136/7 band.
>>    Roger, yes, a couple of us are = thinking=20 about some QRP AM across
>>    town (subject to = non QRM=20 to other locals), and why not?
>>    Some sort of = agreed=20 band plan would be helpful ASAP as well.
>>    My = two=20 NoVs were dated 20th. December, but it does say 'Date = of
>> =20   Issue', which isn't the same as 'Date of Commencement',=20 'With
>>    Effect From' or whatever. It was = clear from=20 the Ofcom site where
>>    the link was that the = NoV=20 comes into effect on 1st. January.
>>    Vy 73, = Chris,=20 G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent.
>>
>>      =  =20 ----- Original Message -----
>>        = *From:*=20 Graham <mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>= ;
>> =20       *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org
>> =20       <mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org>
>> =20       *Sent:* Thursday, December 20, 2012 5:04=20 PM
>>        *Subject:* LF: 477 NOV = What Modes=20 ?
>>
>>        Starting =20 1/1/13  .. but    What Modes  non  listed , = only 
>>        the  power=20 ??
>>         
>>  =  =20     G..
>>
>
>
>    =  =20
>=20



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