Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.19]) by air-me01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINME011-8ba04c56d2e817; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:15:04 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 28885380003E6; Mon, 2 Aug 2010 10:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ofvm8-0005sR-Qb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:13:56 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ofvm6-0005sI-NA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:13:54 +0100 Received: from n1-vm0.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([67.195.23.152]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ofvm5-0006tc-4P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:13:54 +0100 Received: from [67.195.9.82] by n1.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2010 14:13:45 -0000 Received: from [67.195.9.101] by t2.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2010 14:13:45 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Aug 2010 14:13:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 194480.16062.bm@omp105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 38782 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Aug 2010 14:13:45 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1280758424; bh=iWo/WFoxMOBf8TgVAFnInrQiTeSkYdfVTp94vxHn0PI=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=nVOq/bWquQgMjEElGO/vaNJdWVXgsv6cookyZDky41idMjdxZQshVRlkCeZIG06UgEhScgnAiVXUvKqCAiM1CHlQhhTzvngRVftwjFFsVX3/stRqzA5++CskHb0TWUAlYeXoSB9L1TDGsakXeqjuEOXBDQN3lmanN77Lc2qfovw= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=eSH47huB757BvrT1GbK8ChjVYBzkyAGCF+ACFlYfphYyevPe6LD4SGy8msnTeZ5L9K8xa/6bZxfBTe3i1xTkbVqkpXPQp40foaHxZmtVJ61PzZzIhYt3E1mIyPCTCwwa7rgWJz/VByG2DZK50dPc2BUnIdOHBAHux8U2sjw/9qA=; Message-ID: <938756.37938.qm@web111916.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Dsg0eAAVM1kfZ9XoJgq36Ng_4B5cUBS7WcD2VsS7NIhPx1N mdTzyYoAl8J4DBwvayQw7f8w7JT2p5cvxM_SDVyQM5W56AFkfh3N8e1Yz3kR QwOGmA5eGAX1WyN9hwqCvWNcCJBqxowR5MaGlmSbt44hAOjLzC8QEvUe6JqQ MxlNqeB0cLo4RiMdelbmJCebUy4Y9w.3rPa0S1lXcqbFwCHAR5U_RWT0siCw YROsYG.7f3vsYCvfksKsiBJc84SzX8x66mpeEkJrRqSfcIskRfPdHKXePm1s XEZbSvbuPQJzNmIbTOU7Bqmh77YftITMjOtVaZdschTzp9Au. Received: from [151.99.187.181] by web111916.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Aug 2010 07:13:44 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/420.4 YahooMailWebService/0.8.105.279950 References: <4C51FA69.1030202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4C529C6B.9070908@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4C53EB92.4000806@legal-medicine.de> <4C53F284.7070307@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <2E9DD091D9BA490C9600B92540A7B616@JimPC> <4C56A58C.8020600@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <143668091.20100802151349@mterrier.net> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 07:13:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniele Tincani To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <143668091.20100802151349@mterrier.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-820896693-1280758424=:37938" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m247.2 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60134c56d2e66af0 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-820896693-1280758424=:37938 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great work, Stefan. I again tried to see something from as far as Italy (a= nd=20 from a very noisy environment). So, no real hopes but nevertheless lot of= fun=20 and interest in your experiment=C2=A0:-) Unfortunately I had to setup my "grabber" early in the morning before leav= ing=20 home, so I had to=C2=A0make a guess about your tx frequency. I choose 6600= Hz, ~4mHz=20 FFT.=C2=A0Of course=C2=A0there was less than "no chances" to receive your= signal at=20 6470Hz=C2=A0:-) May be next time... Best regards Daniele > Dear LF/VLF group, > Many thanks to all the people who tried to catch may signal in the > yesterdays test! Thanks for taking the time to watch the QRG on a sunny > sunday! The RX side is an important factor in such a experiment because= it > motivates the TX side when there is no QSO but just a reception. It make= s > me glad that there is such an interest in those tests. > Special thanks to Paul Nicholson who did the effort to re-arrange his > antenna and software and the website with a nice overview.=20 > Also special thanks to Markus/DF6NM for the telephone support about the > activity on the reflector, the lightning situation and the QRN situation= . > This is an important feedback as well and much more interesting than jus= t=20 >having a mobile internet stick. > Congratulations to all the successful receiving stations! It was a test > in the middle of the summer time with heavy QRN. The QRN was on its dail= y > maximum as i was able to transmit at a high kite angle. The QRN was even > high compared to the last days during that time (still comparable in my > DFCW-6000/8,97 window on the grabber1). So, there is MUCH potential to= get > a much better S/N in the winther period and at better wind situations. > Thus, i am very hopefully that e.g. Jim and Paul will catch that signal! > This makes the following experiment an optimistic challenge! I am even > sure that it will be possible to go down in the DFCW-mode, maybe to > DFCW-60. This makes it possible to try a cross band QSO (!) like > 137kHz/6,47 kHz (or 8,97 first). Here i could use a small portable activ= e > antenna for 137 that will not be too much swayed be the TX antenna... > As far as i can see there was a positive reception at least by the follo= wing=20 >stations: > DF8ZR (QRSS-60 mode, 16km) > DK7FC (grabber in DFCW-240 mode, 40km) > DD7PC (congrats, first time! 53km) > DF6NM (insecure, fragments, 180km) > DL4YHF(impressive S/N!, 264km) Best DX reception of the lowest signal, > transmitted by an amateur so far (far field) > Paul Nicholson told me that he has recorded the siganl and will try to > work the trace out. Let's be excited about his proffessional and nice to= read=20 >report! > Now, i want to give a detailed report of the things that happened on the= TX=20 >side: > I arrived at about 9:40 UTC. It was no problem to arrange the equipment > and nothing was forgotten. Just before, the rain stopped but the wind wa= s a=20 >little to weak. > I used the 8,1m^2 kite but it took some hours until the wind was enough, > sadly. First, the wind increased just for some minutes. In that time i= saw > that the wire was to long and was sagging to much.=20 > After cutting some meters i could start the generator and PA and turned > the VFO wheel down until i saw a peak on the amperemeter. It was on 5,7 > kHz but it was due to a very low kite angle. Later, as the wind increase= d > i could do more useful resonating tests. I found that i can resonate > between about 6,4 kHz to 6,6 kHz. Maybe this is due to the fact that the > wire has to be slighty longer than 200m since the kite braid is elastic > and will be 20m (10%) longer at strong wind. > After watching the 6,5 kHz sector in the last weeks i found that it is > best to transmit not on n*50 Hz or n*16,6667 Hz (frequency of the german > trains grid). Thus i decided to go about into the center, to 6470,00 Hz,= within=20 >the 46 km band! > First it was not possible to transmit a real "message" since the wind wa= s > OFF sometimes :-(. My plan was to transmit "CU" in DFCW-600. > Than, an accident happened: Suddenly the was was off and i wasn't fast > enough to bring the kite down on the road. So the 200 =E2=82=AC kite dro= pped in a > 15m high tree! I felt like a child that lost his parents on the airport!= I > was not strong enough to pull it out there with its braid. I saw no othe= r > way to try it with the car, even when the kite gets damaged with this > attempt. So i fastened the braid on the car and drove some 10m until the= re > was a heavy pull on it. The braid stopped in a beginning corner of a cor= n > field and as i lifted it above the corn it sounded like a lash/whip. But > suddenly the kite came out of the tree and before it dropped on the bott= om > it was caught by the wind and rised into the sky, hanging on my car=C2= =A0 I > drove back the the TX coil with the kite on the car... > After taking too much sun and after this stress i was powerless and not > motivated to improve the earth losses and so on but it was my absolute > goal to produce some nice signals for the RX stations, at least a limple > carrier! So i set up the whole arrangement and now the wind was stable, > lifting the kite continously above 45 deg, sometimes 70 deg. In proper > wind conditions, it is lifted to 70...80 deg. > The antenna current was about 750mA and after connecting the copper rod= i > hammered into the soil in the 5th experiment it rised to 800mA. Then i > reduced the primary winding number from 70 to 60. Then, the current was= up > to 920 mA, the highest current so far. Just before 16 UTC the fuel of th= e > generator was empty and my fuel as well=C2=A0 That was the end of the 6t= h=20 >experiment. > So, my overall losses are about 600 Ohm now. The ERP was about 11mW and > the voltage just about 20 kV rms. I am sure to be able to decrease the > earth losses to 200 Ohm and the coil losses will be reduced to 200 Ohm= as > well since i can reduce the L to come back to 8,97 kHz. > Now i know the C of the wire and can make a reasonable tap on the coil, > at arround 275 mH! So, in the 7th experiment i can transmit on 6,47 kHz= as > well as on 8,97 kHz. I just have to change the coil connection and the= VFO > frequency and that can be done in < 2 minutes. > I will spend some experiments on this 200m antenna now before going to > 300m. And i want to test it on 137 kHz=C2=A0 With a 300m antenna, i will > explore the 58km band in future tests! Also, just for fun,=C2=A0 i want= to > transmit on 7355 Hz. This frequency is a message in it selfe for amateur= s=C2=A0=20 > So, all in all it was a hard experiment with many difficulties and the > QRN situation could have been at least 15 dB better but it was an > important test to find the tap for the L to come back on the Dreamers Ba= nd > (33km) with a 200m vertical. Also we have done some new record reception= s > and can be very hopefully that this can be much improved in the next tes= t, > if there is proper wind and less QRN that can be assumed when going to= the=20 >autumn > Again thanks to all the group and hope cuagn in the next test!=C2=A0=20 > Best 73, Stefan/DK7FC > PS: Some photos and screenshots will be displayed on my QRZ.com page in= some=20 >days. > PPS: Hopefully there will come up further stations on the dreamers band= within=20 >this year =20 --0-820896693-1280758424=:37938 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Great work, Stefan. I again tried to see something from as far as Ita= ly (and from a very noisy environment). So, no real hopes but nevertheless= lot of fun and interest in your experiment :-)
Unfortunately I had to setup my "grabber" early in the morning before= leaving home, so I had to make a guess about your tx frequency. I ch= oose 6600Hz, ~4mHz FFT. Of course there was less than "no chance= s" to receive your signal at 6470Hz :-)
May be next time...
Best regards
Daniele

> Dear LF/VLF group,

> Many thanks to all the people= who tried to catch may signal in the
> yesterdays test! Thanks for= taking the time to watch the QRG on a sunny
> sunday! The RX side= is an important factor in such a experiment because it
> motivates= the TX side when there is no QSO but just a reception. It makes
>= me glad that there is such an interest in those tests.
> Special th= anks to Paul Nicholson who did the effort to re-arrange his
> antenn= a and software and the website with a nice overview.
> Also special= thanks to Markus/DF6NM for the telephone support about the
> activi= ty on the reflector, the lightning situation and the QRN situation.
>= ; This is an important feedback as well and much more interesting than jus= t having a mobile internet stick.

> Congratulations to all the= successful receiving stations! It was a test
> in the middle of the= summer time with heavy QRN. The QRN was on its daily
> maximum as i was able to= transmit at a high kite angle. The QRN was even
> high compared to= the last days during that time (still comparable in my
> DFCW-6000/= 8,97 window on the grabber1). So, there is MUCH potential to get
>= a much better S/N in the winther period and at better wind situations.> Thus, i am very hopefully that e.g. Jim and Paul will catch that sig= nal!
> This makes the following experiment an optimistic challenge!= I am even
> sure that it will be possible to go down in the DFCW-mo= de, maybe to
> DFCW-60. This makes it possible to try a cross band= QSO (!) like
> 137kHz/6,47 kHz (or 8,97 first). Here i could use a= small portable active
> antenna for 137 that will not be too much= swayed be the TX antenna...

> As far as i can see there was a= positive reception at least by the following stations:
> DF8ZR (QRS= S-60 mode, 16km)
> DK7FC (grabber in DFCW-240 mode, 40km)
> DD7PC (congr= ats, first time! 53km)
> DF6NM (insecure, fragments, 180km)
>= DL4YHF(impressive S/N!, 264km) Best DX reception of the lowest signal,> transmitted by an amateur so far (far field)

> Paul Nichol= son told me that he has recorded the siganl and will try to
> work= the trace out. Let's be excited about his proffessional and nice to read= report!


> Now, i want to give a detailed report of the thin= gs that happened on the TX side:

> I arrived at about 9:40 UTC.= It was no problem to arrange the equipment
> and nothing was forgot= ten. Just before, the rain stopped but the wind was a little to weak.
&= gt; I used the 8,1m^2 kite but it took some hours until the wind was enoug= h,
> sadly. First, the wind increased just for some minutes. In that= time i saw
> that the wire was to long and was sagging to much.
> After cutting some meters i could start the generator and PA and turned> the VFO wheel down until i saw a peak on the amperemeter. It was on= 5,7
> kHz but it was due to a very low kite angle. Later, as the wi= nd increased
> i could do more useful resonating tests. I found that= i can resonate
> between about 6,4 kHz to 6,6 kHz. Maybe this is du= e to the fact that the
> wire has to be slighty longer than 200m sin= ce the kite braid is elastic
> and will be 20m (10%) longer at stron= g wind.
> After watching the 6,5 kHz sector in the last weeks i foun= d that it is
> best to transmit not on n*50 Hz or n*16,6667 Hz (freq= uency of the german
> trains grid). Thus i decided to go about into= the center, to 6470,00 Hz, within the 46 km band!
> First it was no= t possible to transmit a real "message" since the wind was
> OFF som= etimes :-(. My plan was to transmit "CU" in DFCW-600.

> Than, an accident happened: Suddenly the was was off and i wasn't fast
> eno= ugh to bring the kite down on the road. So the 200 =E2=82=AC kite dropped= in a
> 15m high tree! I felt like a child that lost his parents on= the airport! I
> was not strong enough to pull it out there with it= s braid. I saw no other
> way to try it with the car, even when the= kite gets damaged with this
> attempt. So i fastened the braid on= the car and drove some 10m until there
> was a heavy pull on it. Th= e braid stopped in a beginning corner of a corn
> field and as i lif= ted it above the corn it sounded like a lash/whip. But
> suddenly th= e kite came out of the tree and before it dropped on the bottom
> it= was caught by the wind and rised into the sky, hanging on my car  I<= BR>> drove back the the TX coil with the kite on the car...

>= After taking too much sun and after this stress i was powerless and not> motivated to improve the earth losses and so on but it was my absolute
> goal= to produce some nice signals for the RX stations, at least a limple
&g= t; carrier! So i set up the whole arrangement and now the wind was stable,=
> lifting the kite continously above 45 deg, sometimes 70 deg. In= proper
> wind conditions, it is lifted to 70...80 deg.
> The= antenna current was about 750mA and after connecting the copper rod i
= > hammered into the soil in the 5th experiment it rised to 800mA. Then= i
> reduced the primary winding number from 70 to 60. Then, the cur= rent was up
> to 920 mA, the highest current so far. Just before 16= UTC the fuel of the
> generator was empty and my fuel as well = That was the end of the 6th experiment.

> So, my overall losses= are about 600 Ohm now. The ERP was about 11mW and
> the voltage jus= t about 20 kV rms. I am sure to be able to decrease the
> earth loss= es to 200 Ohm and the coil losses will be reduced to 200 Ohm as
> well since= i can reduce the L to come back to 8,97 kHz.

> Now i know the= C of the wire and can make a reasonable tap on the coil,
> at arrou= nd 275 mH! So, in the 7th experiment i can transmit on 6,47 kHz as
>= well as on 8,97 kHz. I just have to change the coil connection and the VF= O
> frequency and that can be done in < 2 minutes.

> I= will spend some experiments on this 200m antenna now before going to
&= gt; 300m. And i want to test it on 137 kHz  With a 300m antenna, i wi= ll
> explore the 58km band in future tests! Also, just for fun, = ; i want to
> transmit on 7355 Hz. This frequency is a message in it= selfe for amateurs 

> So, all in all it was a hard experi= ment with many difficulties and the
> QRN situation could have been= at least 15 dB better but it was an
> important test to find the ta= p for the L to come back on the Dreamers Band
> (33km) with a 200m vertical. Al= so we have done some new record receptions
> and can be very hopeful= ly that this can be much improved in the next test,
> if there is pr= oper wind and less QRN that can be assumed when going to the autumn
> Again thanks to all the group and hope cuagn in the next test! =

> Best 73, Stefan/DK7FC

> PS: Some photos and screen= shots will be displayed on my = QRZ.com page in some days.

> PPS: Hopefully there will come= up further stations on the dreamers band within this year
=
--0-820896693-1280758424=:37938--