Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.221]) by air-mg08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMG081-8c394b40d71a282; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 12:42:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6F5363800D0FE; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 12:06:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NRTsr-0002hb-Ie for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:04:53 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NRTsq-0002hS-Qm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:04:52 +0000 Received: from web28106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.126]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NRTsq-0004rB-Lt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 17:04:52 +0000 Received: (qmail 3397 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jan 2010 17:04:46 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1262538286; bh=sp7UNPrx/cT/adSTrgnLvf7VoMWjord3cdUJRWt9H3g=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=xoeUAqJPWbPb7sDWscYp9n2V1DQz30z+aA9jDCmMWx76TL3U2jOaMLHBG2exxtQW/N/8ffl9Z06eRC1fJcdxnYGWjnoObrrJuE663auxXIed1vfXgdR1xMbTtH63+YNcAfOf3UJmWh/dDu4TkG3FQ2KK3DOAQXHbZSWH2ts8jXo= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WEl1nU2urOm42udGwo4MEu7z2xL6gDXPf/6LSYOJDVmOqzRLTSBX6lgGPQkkSGodAnv88Ngs1jol9cyA7cmQGxX02HPAAwBzUBfoCh4oP+AVTv6juVwPBZcXHYdGrRKbSVAAGBDIVm1lFrq5N3h15K+EGmc/KrtkOia6Hn+hh+Q=; Message-ID: <926747.2377.qm@web28106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: sn1lnIMVM1lKYq5HP89kpdgXtsF3eIsBRLRRmKyp1xyiQe6Rk76DgdssjAuL56PDOqUm6oZflAwwKthhgchdEhdqcoJsAgnQrmQwtL4_gspEIXvuCkKgJjCyC8K1Ji6ru6mu8NkSUJzCOtoMwcVBFkoUhNr9Zcny604rKox08gAgpnj.So5p90mFeHnCED1JccrdlI8I0FYR.bD6OYRcmvgLPgf8hRrg6.bWUQHfcGShRJn1_wFnjazqwC3VlrIVq1oqbyuPriyTFpWroACDxlQ- Received: from [86.147.177.124] by web28106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 09:04:46 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.0.20 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:04:46 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <003f01ca8c92$bcd526c0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Karma: unknown: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1592280444-1262538286=:2377" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dd4b40ce7e61b4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1592280444-1262538286=:2377 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mal and LF =A0 I think (from memory) all the stations you listed were outside the 501-504= apart from the PA station.=A0And=A0I am sure they were all fully licenced= station within their own respective territories. 73 es GL petefmt --- On Sun, 3/1/10, mal hamilton wrote: From: mal hamilton Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 16:35 WHY so much fuss about this station PA0A, what about all the acty over XMA= S and NEW YEAR IE MGY, PAT, IBHE, TEST XMAS, and others.=A0Are these legal or otherwise? g3kev =A0 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:11 PM Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? Hi LF =A0 I take it that PA0A is one of the non legal stations we've been warned abo= ut (see below). He was CQing last night and no one called him although the= re were several on the band. Not a good idea to give Pirates a report not= sure how it would affect our licence to use the band? 73 es GL petefmt --- On Sat, 2/1/10, M. Sanders wrote: From: M. Sanders Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: pa0shy@veron.nl Date: Saturday, 2 January, 2010, 1:13 To all LF, =A0 Please beware that the official Dutch Telecom Agency has not yet published= the issue of experimental licences for the 600m band=A0tot the Dutch Amat= eur Radio organisations VERON and / or=A0VRZA.=A0For those able to underst= and Dutch language the most recent official publication is quoted below.= =A0However=A0not all=A0their memebers seem to=A0have been=A0adequately inf= ormed=A0about the process. It is not even=A0clear if=A0notifications=A0to= participate=A0in the experiment by individual Radio Amateurs=A0have alrea= dy=A0been processed by the organisations. =A0 I am most sorry to inform all LF interested parties via this reflector=A0t= hat the transmissions like the one=A0recorded below=A0and and therfore=A0Q= SO's with PA stations=A0may still=A0be regarded as an act of 'radio piracy= '=A0by the=A0PA stations, transmitting on an frequency band without offici= al permission.=A0It looks like it is not 'legal'=A0yet=A0to QSO with PA on= 600m unit official publications have been issued by Dutch Telecom Authori= ties and=A0VERON and/or VRZA have informed indivual Radio Amateurs in writ= ing=A0about their participation to the experiments=A0transmitting on 600m.= I suppose a starting date somewhere=A0in the future=A0will be=A0in=A0orde= r, and not legalising transmissions=A0'after the fact'=A0as of 1-1-2010 0:= 00LET.=A0 =A0 Dutch Amateurs have a rich history of 'illegal' first-QSO's, starting in= the 1920's with the first succesful trans Atlantic QSO's from PA. The Rad= io Amateur, OM Jesse, was convicted of 'radio piracy' but not fined and=A0= the Judge congratulated him and complimented him on=A0his innovative=A0ach= ievement. History sometimes has the tendency to repeat it self. =A0 Kind regards, Best 73's, =A0 Michael Sanders, PC4M =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 QUOTE: >> =A0 Onderzoek naar toegang tot 500 KHz voor radiozendamateurs 23-12-2009=A0 Tijdens het overleg met de belangenverenigingen voor radiozendamateurs VER= ON en VRZA op 7 oktober 2009 zijn afspraken gemaakt over de toegang tot de= 500 KHz band. De verenigingen zullen onderzoeken wat de effecten zijn van= het uitzenden in deze frequentieband in relatie tot de randvoorwaarden di= e voor de WRC 2012 zijn voorgesteld voor de 500 KHz band. De resultaten va= n het onderzoek worden ingebracht bij de nationale voorbereidingscommissie= voor de WRC 2012 (NVC). De verenigingen moeten hiervoor een rapport indie= nen bij Agentschap Telecom. Om het onderzoek te kunnen uitvoeren vragen de verenigingen een collectiev= e experimenteervergunning aan bij Agentschap Telecom. Over de inhoud van= de aanvraag van de experimenteervergunning voeren de verenigingen nog ove= rleg met de co=F6rdinator voor amateurzaken. De randvoorwaarden voor de aa= nvraag en de uitvoering van het experiment zijn inmiddels met de VRON en= VRZA besproken.=A0 Als vergunninghouder van de experimenteervergunning zijn de verenigingen= verantwoordelijk voor de uitvoering van het experiment. Zij kunnen indivi= duele radiozendamateurs informeren hoe zij in aanmerking kunnen komen voor= eventuele deelname aan dit experiment.=A0 Individuele aanvragen voor een experimenteervergunning voor de 500 kHz zul= len door Agentschap Telecom niet worden gehonoreerd . Zodra de experimenteervergunningen zijn verleend, maken wij dit bekend via= deze website.=20 < I just worked PA0A on 502.5kHz with very good signals. 73, Rik =A0ON7YD - OR7T =20 --0-1592280444-1262538286=:2377 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mal and LF
 
I think (from memory) all the stations you listed were outside the 50= 1-504 apart from the PA station. And I am sure they were all fully licenced station within their own respective territories.<= /DIV>

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Sun, 3/1/10, mal= hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net> wrote:

From: mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net&g= t;
Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy?
To: rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org
Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 16:35

WHY so much fuss about this station PA0A,= what about all the acty over XMAS and NEW YEAR IE
MGY, PAT, IBHE, TEST XMAS, and others.&nb= sp;Are these legal or otherwise?
g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From: M0FMT
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:11= PM
Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz /= legal or piracy?

Hi LF
 
I take it that PA0A is one of the non legal stations we've been warne= d about (see below). He was CQing last night and no one called him althoug= h there were several on the band. Not a good idea to give Pirates a report= not sure how it would affect our licence to use the band?

73 es GL= petefmt

--- On Sat, 2/1/10, M. Sanders <misan@xs4all.nl>= ; wrote:

From: M. Sanders <misan@xs4all.nl>
Su= bject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz / legal or piracy?
To: rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org
Cc: pa0shy@veron.nl
Date: Saturday, 2 January, 2010, 1:13=

To all LF,
 
Please beware that the official Dutch Tel= ecom Agency has not yet published the issue of experimental licences for= the 600m band tot the Dutch Amateur Radio organisations VERON and /= or VRZA. For those able to understand Dutch language the most= recent official publication is quoted below. However not all&nb= sp;their memebers seem to have been adequately informed abo= ut the process. It is not even clear if notifications to pa= rticipate in the experiment by individual Radio Amateurs have al= ready been processed by the organisations.
 
I am most sorry to inform all LF interest= ed parties via this reflector that the transmissions like the one&nbs= p;recorded below and and therfore QSO's with PA stations ma= y still be regarded as an act of 'radio piracy' by the PA= stations, transmitting on an frequency band without official permission.&= nbsp;It looks like it is not 'legal' yet to QSO with PA on 600m= unit official publications have been issued by Dutch Telecom Authorities= and VERON and/or VRZA have informed indivual Radio Amateurs in writi= ng about their participation to the experiments transmitting on= 600m. I suppose a starting date somewhere in the future will be=  in order, and not legalising transmissions 'after the fact= ' as of 1-1-2010 0:00LET. 
 
Dutch Amateurs have a rich history of 'il= legal' first-QSO's, starting in the 1920's with the first succesful trans= Atlantic QSO's from PA. The Radio Amateur, OM Jesse, was convicted of 'ra= dio piracy' but not fined and the Judge congratulated him and complim= ented him on his innovative achievement. History sometimes has= the tendency to repeat it self.
 
Kind regards, Best 73's,
 
Michael Sanders, PC4M
 
 
 
 
QUOTE: >>
 
Onderzoek naar toegang tot 500 KHz voor= radiozendamateurs

23-12-2009 

Tijdens het overleg met de belangenverenigingen voor radiozendama= teurs VERON en VRZA op 7 oktober 2009 zijn afspraken gemaakt over de toega= ng tot de 500 KHz band. De verenigingen zullen onderzoeken wat de effecten= zijn van het uitzenden in deze frequentieband in relatie tot de randvoorw= aarden die voor de WRC 2012 zijn voorgesteld voor de 500 KHz band. De resu= ltaten van het onderzoek worden ingebracht bij de nationale voorbereidings= commissie voor de WRC 2012 (NVC). De verenigingen moeten hiervoor een rapp= ort indienen bij Agentschap Telecom.

Om het onderzoek te kunnen uitvoeren vragen= de verenigingen een collectieve experimenteervergunning aan bij Agentscha= p Telecom. Over de inhoud van de aanvraag van de experimenteervergunning= voeren de verenigingen nog overleg met de co=F6rdinator voor amateurzaken= . De randvoorwaarden voor de aanvraag en de uitvoering van het experiment zijn= inmiddels met de VRON en VRZA besproken. 

Als vergunninghouder van de experi= menteervergunning zijn de verenigingen verantwoordelijk voor de uitvoering= van het experiment. Zij kunnen individuele radiozendamateurs informeren= hoe zij in aanmerking kunnen komen voor eventuele deelname aan dit experi= ment. 
=
Individuele aanvragen voor een experimenteervergunning voor de 500 kHz= zullen door Agentschap Telecom niet worden gehonoreerd .

Zodra de experimenteervergunningen zi= jn verleend, maken wij dit bekend via deze website.

<<UNQUOTE

 =20

 
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary - G4WGT=
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 9:13= PM
Subject: Re: LF: PA0A on 500kHz

Rik,=20

Just looked at my grabber saves - this must be the two of you.

73

Gary - G4WGT

2010/1/1 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
I just worked PA0A on 502.5kHz= with very good signals.

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T



<= /BLOCKQUOTE>

=20 --0-1592280444-1262538286=:2377--