Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.204]) by air-de02.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDE024-5ea94cd90390318; Tue, 09 Nov 2010 03:17:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-de04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 41DE4380001F4; Tue, 9 Nov 2010 03:17:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PFjMb-0007cy-3o for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Nov 2010 08:15:33 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PFjMa-0007cp-CD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Nov 2010 08:15:32 +0000 Received: from kh-sx-01.urano.de ([80.150.80.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PFjMX-0003jY-Mc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Nov 2010 08:15:32 +0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at Received: from uiexch1.EU.URANO.DE ([192.168.199.30]) by kh-sx-01.urano.de with ESMTP id oA98FSXt006956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2010 09:15:28 +0100 Received: from uiexch4.EU.URANO.DE ([192.168.199.9]) by uiexch1.EU.URANO.DE ([192.168.199.30]) with mapi; Tue, 9 Nov 2010 09:15:21 +0100 From: "Barzen, Guido" To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 09:15:21 +0100 Thread-Topic: Long time transmission on earth antenna Thread-Index: Act/hz0eWfAxVwAoRWiran7Fjtpx6QAXs1Dw Message-ID: <904983430FA25C42BFE161E1312115E10139523151A5@uiexch4.EU.URANO.DE> References: <4CD861D8.3070904@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> In-Reply-To: <4CD861D8.3070904@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Accept-Language: de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: de-DE x-olx-disclaimer: Done MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: ACL 205 matched, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (kh-sx-01.urano.de [192.168.199.53]); Tue, 09 Nov 2010 09:15:28 +0100 (CET) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 192.168.199.53 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: AW: Long time transmission on earth antenna Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_904983430FA25C42BFE161E1312115E10139523151A5uiexch4EUUR_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cc4cd9038e2d9d X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_904983430FA25C42BFE161E1312115E10139523151A5uiexch4EUUR_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guido Barzen schrieb am 09.11.2010 09:15 Hallo Stefan, du k=FCndigst das zu kurzfristig an. So kann ein normaler Werkt=E4tiger si= ch kaum vorbereiten. 73 Guido Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen Guido Barzen Account Manager URANO Informationssysteme GmbH Tel: +49 671 84030 141 Nikolaus-Otto-Stra=DFe 8 Fax: +49 671 84030 300 55543 Bad Kreuznach Mobil: +49 163 9160 908 www.URANO.de E-Mail: Guido.Barzen@URANO.de Handelsregister: AG Bad Kreuznach Blatt HRB 3363 | Gesch=E4ftsf=FChrer:= Andreas Krafft, Heiner Sepeur | Steuer-Nr: 06650/00153 | USt-ID: DE 14826= 6313 Diese E-Mail k=F6nnte vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich gesch=FCtzte Informa= tionen enthalten. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Adressat sind oder diese E-M= ail irrt=FCmlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie bitte sofort den Absender= und vernichten Sie diese Mail. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die unbefugt= e Weitergabe dieser Mail ist nicht gestattet. This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you= are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) pl= ease notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthoris= ed copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is= strictly forbidden. Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org] Im Auftrag von Stefan Sch=E4fer Gesendet: Montag, 8. November 2010 21:47 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Paul; Renato Romero; Bernd Grupe Betreff: VLF: Long time transmission on earth antenna Dear VLF, The recent discussion about the optimal frequency and propagation on a giv= en RX/TX distance is an interesting issue. Furthermore Markus/DF6NM and Pa= ul Nicholson has demonstrated that it is possible to detect a 5 uW EMRP si= gnal in > 1000 km if the integration times are very long (>5 hours) and th= e carrier is (VERY) stable in frequency. Since my earth antenna, currently 600m spaced earth electrodes and about= 700 Ohm overall losses, seems to have a not too bad efficiency (rememberi= ng my 250 W DFCW-600 transmission was undoubly copied by Michael Oexner in= 49.6 km on 8970 Hz) it could be possible to receive a long time transmiss= ion, GPS locked, in a very small FFT too. The advantage is that this anten= na has not to be resonated and covers the whole VLF/LF spectrum with "suit= able" efficiency. Thus it will be possible to try different TX frequencies= and one can see if there are optimal frequencies for different locations,= knowing that the antennas efficiency is a function of the frequency. Thus i want to do a VLF 24 hour non stop transmission, starting on 8970.00= 500 Hz. I have got some big lead acid car batteries (12 V / 300 Ah in sum)= . First i want to try my small PA (300W) running at about 100 watts. For= that, i will leave the car into the forest, over the night. I am still not sure if my GPS receiver is working in the forest but we wil= l see. Note that this test cannot be compared to a kite antenna experiment. The= signal is probably 30 dB weaker! Anyway it is worth a try, with longer tr= ansmission- and integrating times. Additionally the antenna may have some= directivity. This would be interesting to be confirmed. S/N oriented stat= ions may be preferred but everyone is invited to try to receive something= :-) If some RX stations would receive this very weak signal, they will be able= to provide informations at which time the signal level was strongest and= when the S/N was best. Attached you find a SpecLab usr file with probably useful settings. I have= choosen a FFT of 141 uHz (width of one FFT bin). If you want you can use= this for reception. Please let me know if you are interested to participate in this test. It= shall start in the late afternoon of wednesday, 10th November. The exact= starting time is not sure since i have to be at work in the morning. Furt= hermore i want to reduce the earth rod losses even more by applying anothe= r 20 rods what will take some time. The experiment has to be during the we= ek since on the weekend, to many people are crossing the way there... 73, Stefan/DK7FC --_000_904983430FA25C42BFE161E1312115E10139523151A5uiexch4EUUR_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guido Barzen schrieb am 09.11.2010 09:1= 5

Hallo Stefan,

 

du kündigst das zu kurzfristig an. So= kann ein normaler Werktätiger sich kaum vorbereiten.

 

73

 

Guido

 

 

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

 


=20 =20
Guido Barzen =20
Account Manager
URANO Informationssysteme GmbH= Tel: +49 671 84030 141
Nikolaus-Otto-Straße 8 Fax: +49 671 84030 300
55543 Bad Kreuznach Mobil: +49 163 9160 908
www.URANO.de E-Mail: Guido.Barzen@URANO.de
Handelsregister:= AG Bad Kreuznach Blatt HRB 3363  | Geschäftsführer:= Andreas Krafft, Heiner Sepeur | Steuer-Nr: 06650/00153 | U= St-ID: DE 148266313
Diese E-Mail könnte vertrauliche und/oder rechtlich ge= schützte Informationen enthalten. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige Ad= ressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, informieren= Sie bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese Mail. Das unerlaub= te Kopieren sowie die unbefugte Weitergabe dieser Mail ist nich= t gestattet.
This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged info= rmation. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this= e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-= mail. Any unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material= in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.

Von: owner-rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Stefan Schäfer
Gesendet: Montag, 8. November 2010 21:47
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Paul; Renato Romero; Bernd Grupe<= br> Betreff: VLF: Long time transmission on earth antenna

 

Dear VLF,

The recent discussion about the optimal frequency and propagation on a giv= en RX/TX distance is an interesting issue. Furthermore Markus/DF6NM and Paul Nicholson has demonstrated that it is possible to detect a 5 uW EMRP signa= l in > 1000 km if the integration times are very long (>5 hours) and the carrier is (VERY) stable in frequency.

Since my earth antenna, currently 600m spaced earth electrodes and about= 700 Ohm overall losses, seems to have a not too bad efficiency (remembering my= 250 W DFCW-600 transmission was undoubly copied by Michael Oexner in 49.6 km= on 8970 Hz) it could be possible to receive a long time transmission, GPS loc= ked, in a very small FFT too. The advantage is that this antenna has not to be resonated and covers the whole VLF/LF spectrum with "suitable" efficiency. Thus it will be possible to try different TX frequencies and= one can see if there are optimal frequencies for different locations, knowing= that the antennas efficiency is a function of the frequency.

Thus i want to do a VLF 24 hour non stop transmission, starting on 8970.00500 Hz. I have got some big lead acid car batteries (12 V / 300= Ah in sum). First i want to try my small PA (300W) running at about 100 watts= . For that, i will leave the car into the forest, over the night.

I am still not sure if my GPS receiver is working in the forest but we wil= l see.

Note that this test cannot be compared to a kite antenna experiment. The= signal is probably 30 dB weaker! Anyway it is worth a try, with longer transmissi= on- and integrating times. Additionally the antenna may have some directivity.= This would be interesting to be confirmed. S/N oriented stations may be preferr= ed but everyone is invited to try to receive something :-)

If some RX stations would receive this very weak signal, they will be able= to provide informations at which time the signal level was strongest and when= the S/N was best.

Attached you find a SpecLab usr file with probably useful settings. I have choosen a FFT of 141 uHz (width of one FFT bin). If you want you can use= this for reception.

Please let me know if you are interested to participate in this test. It= shall start in the late afternoon of wednesday, 10th November. The exact starting= time is not sure since i have to be at work in the morning. Furthermore i want= to reduce the earth rod losses even more by applying another 20 rods what wil= l take some time. The experiment has to be during the week since on the week= end, to many people are crossing the way there...

73, Stefan/DK7FC

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