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From: "Alan Melia" <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
References: <BLU180-W75EEC3B90916A1E263A359AC2E0@phx.gbl>,<524213E5.5000509@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <BLU180-W212076F456896CAF04E90AC2E0@phx.gbl>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 01:16:12 +0100
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Subject: Re: LF: TA CW?
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Hi Bob, the propagation conditions are very similar to the other LF =
bands ....there is skywave but the ground wave is stronger further. The =
usual problem is antenna efficiency .....in rounded figures 73 is 4 =
times more difficult than 136, which is 10 times more difficult than =
470/500.=20

Beware of using HF or commercial "folklaw" on ground systems You MUST =
measure as you go otherwise you will waste a lot of time and dollars to =
no great effect. I measured Ground Loss in experiments with Finbar early =
in the 137 era (using a simple transformer-ratio-arm-bridge), and =
rolling out "radials" can be a big mistake.....it all depends on your =
environment. the first one or maybe two make a difference then it gets =
you wont notice the difference To be effective radials on amateur sizes =
antennas need to be at least 1/8 wavelength which is over half a mile! =
Unlike 160m skin depth in the ground can be 30 feet or more at these =
frequencies. A lookat commercial VLF antennas is more helpful. They use =
massive capacity top loading, but they can usually choose their site for =
its suitability.

The only station to make the crossing on 73 when we still had it on this =
side was Laurie G3AQC (now SK) He was using 1200W from an ex Decca Nav =
TX and a reasonably efficient antenna...... but not that good.His ERP =
was probably close to 1watt.

Best of Luck .....   its a pity we will not get an allocation there =
again.
Alan
G3NYK (an original UK 73kHz "licence" holder)
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Bob Raide=20
  To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
  Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:01 AM
  Subject: RE: LF: TA CW?


  Stefan;
  73 kHz band is going to be difficult from my preliminary tests.  Seems =
to be a lack of skywave.  I think skywave is going to be rather scarce =
and best I am doing so far is out to Kansas but it is ground wave am =
sure.  Got to get the ground system rolled out here soon as lawn mowing =
ends.  That should help to give me more field strength on all the bands. =
 Going to try 73 periodically and see what shakes out!
  I have worked PA0A on CW by ear last winter on 500.  Yes our 500 =
licenses go down to 470 region.  In winter we should have no trouble =
working CW by ear am sure and will be looking forward to it as you would =
be even further away from me than PA.  I also worked into N. Ireland and =
I went to SSB and was heard and worked Finbar, EI0CL [I forgot the =
suffix of his call] cross mode as he has no SSB authorization.  Jay, =
Warren and I work regularly Sunday evenings on 510 upper throughout the =
Winter months.
  I see no takers for 73.  Gary has a grabber on 73 for us and using =
QRSS 500 spec lab and I tried last nite but never saw a trace.  With =
ground system out this Winter his grabber may be a winner-Bob
  =20


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
  Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:36:21 +0200
  From: Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
  To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
  Subject: LF: TA CW?

  Hi Bob,=20

  Success! :-) Welcome! :-)

  Sorry i can't receive on 4000m here since my receivers are mono band =
homemade DC converters (for 137 kHz and 472 kHz) and direct sampling =
receivers at 0...24 kHz.

  But, i remember you were the strongest station on MF (is that =
472...479 kHz for your licence?) last season. Are you a CW man as well? =
Do you think it is realistic to try for a TA CW QSO? If, then it could =
work in november to february. So far i'm only getting sporadic WSPR-2 =
decodes at WD2XSH/17. My WSPR signal is QRP though. At least VO1NA =
copied my signal in GN37OR last year...
  Worth a try? I'm continuously doing overnite WSPR-2 tests on 630m.

  73, Stefan/DK7FC


  Am 24.09.2013 23:45, schrieb Bob Raide:=20
    All;
    With Stefan's help I seem to have finally made it into the group.  I =
am Bob Raide W2ZM with exp.  license's for 500, 137, and most recently =
73 kHz band.=20
    I am ready to fire up on 72.401 with Qrss 60 if anyone is interested =
to try for a capture tonite.  Or I can change to 137 if no one is =
interested in 4000 meters.
    500 kHz call-WE2XGR/6, 137-WE2XEB, 73-WG2XRS/4
    Thanks all, Bob

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Hi Bob, the propagation conditions are =
very similar=20
to the other LF bands ....there is skywave but the ground wave is =
stronger=20
further. The usual problem is antenna efficiency .....in rounded figures =
73 is 4=20
times more difficult than 136, which is 10 times more difficult than =
470/500.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Beware of using HF or commercial =
"folklaw" on=20
ground systems You MUST measure as you go otherwise you will waste a lot =
of time=20
and dollars to no great effect. I measured Ground Loss in experiments =
with=20
Finbar early in the 137 era (using a simple =
transformer-ratio-arm-bridge), and=20
rolling out "radials" can be a big mistake.....it all depends on your=20
environment. the first one or maybe two make a difference then it gets =
you wont=20
notice the difference To be effective radials on amateur sizes antennas =
need to=20
be at least 1/8 wavelength&nbsp;which is over half a mile! Unlike 160m =
skin=20
depth in the ground can be 30 feet or more at these frequencies. A =
lookat=20
commercial VLF antennas is more helpful. They use massive capacity top =
loading,=20
but they can usually choose their site for its suitability.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>The only station to make the crossing =
on 73 when we=20
still had it on this side was Laurie G3AQC (now SK) He was using 1200W =
from an=20
ex Decca Nav TX and a reasonably efficient antenna...... but not that =
good.His=20
ERP was probably close to 1watt.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Best of Luck .....&nbsp;&nbsp; its a =
pity we will=20
not get an allocation there again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Alan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>G3NYK (an original UK 73kHz "licence"=20
holder)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Drjraide@hotmail.com href=3D"mailto:rjraide@hotmail.com">Bob =
Raide</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Drsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 25, =
2013 12:01=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: LF: TA CW?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr>Stefan;<BR>73 kHz band is going to be difficult from my =

  preliminary tests.&nbsp; Seems to be a lack of skywave.&nbsp; I think =
skywave=20
  is going to be rather scarce and&nbsp;best I am doing so far is out to =
Kansas=20
  but it is ground wave am sure.&nbsp; Got to get the ground system =
rolled out=20
  here soon as lawn mowing ends.&nbsp; That should help&nbsp;to give me =
more=20
  field strength on all the bands.&nbsp; Going to try 73 periodically =
and see=20
  what shakes out!<BR>I have worked PA0A on CW by ear last winter on =
500.&nbsp;=20
  Yes our 500 licenses go down to 470 region.&nbsp; In winter we should =
have no=20
  trouble working CW by ear am sure and will be looking forward to it as =
you=20
  would be even further away from me than PA.&nbsp; I also worked into =
N.=20
  Ireland and I went to SSB and was heard and worked Finbar, EI0CL [I =
forgot the=20
  suffix of his call] cross mode as he has no SSB authorization.&nbsp; =
Jay,=20
  Warren and I work regularly Sunday evenings on 510 upper throughout=20
  the&nbsp;Winter months.<BR>I see no takers for 73.&nbsp; Gary has a =
grabber on=20
  73 for us and using QRSS 500 spec lab and I tried last nite but never =
saw a=20
  trace.&nbsp; With ground system out this Winter his grabber may be a=20
  winner-Bob<BR>&nbsp;<BR>
  <DIV>
  <HR id=3DstopSpelling>
  Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:36:21 +0200<BR>From:=20
  Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de<BR>To:=20
  rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR>Subject: LF: TA CW?<BR><BR>Hi Bob,=20
  <BR><BR>Success! :-) Welcome! :-)<BR><BR>Sorry i can't receive on =
4000m here=20
  since my receivers are mono band homemade DC converters (for 137 kHz =
and 472=20
  kHz) and direct sampling receivers at 0...24 kHz.<BR><BR>But, i =
remember you=20
  were the strongest station on MF (is that 472...479 kHz for your =
licence?)=20
  last season. Are you a CW man as well? Do you think it is realistic to =
try for=20
  a TA CW QSO? If, then it could work in november to february. So far =
i'm only=20
  getting sporadic WSPR-2 decodes at WD2XSH/17. My WSPR signal is QRP =
though. At=20
  least VO1NA copied my signal in GN37OR last year...<BR>Worth a try? =
I'm=20
  continuously doing overnite WSPR-2 tests on 630m.<BR><BR>73,=20
  Stefan/DK7FC<BR><BR><BR>Am 24.09.2013 23:45, schrieb Bob Raide:=20
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    <DIV dir=3Dltr>All;<BR>With Stefan's help I seem to have finally =
made it into=20
    the group.&nbsp; I am Bob Raide W2ZM with exp.&nbsp; license's for =
500, 137,=20
    and most recently 73 kHz band. <BR>I am ready to fire up on 72.401 =
with Qrss=20
    60 if anyone is interested to try for a capture tonite.&nbsp; Or I =
can=20
    change to 137 if no one is interested in 4000 meters.<BR>500 kHz=20
    call-WE2XGR/6, 137-WE2XEB, 73-WG2XRS/4<BR>Thanks all,=20
  Bob<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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