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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id ey10si3390044wib.12.2013.12.27.14.10.02 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 14:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1VwfVK-0000DD-6H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:03:38 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1VwfVJ-0000Cy-8k for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:03:37 +0000 Received: from smtpout3.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.59] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1VwfVG-0004CN-CV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:03:36 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.31.70.14]) by mwinf5d35 with ME id 6m3Y1n0060JUhEi03m3YqT; Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:03:33 +0100 Message-ID: <8BD14049F40F4908B36ABD9A5A4304CE@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <52BDD7FF.9060300@freenet.de>,<1CAAB4802E504192AD39BC56B0A49ECB@AGB> , In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:03:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: That's two different shows, When it comes to the numbers then things can go wrong , the best way is to run the two up the strip together , The best way to detect a carrier , as Stefan will tell you is qrss as you can wind the time out as long as you like , then you need to be stable , each end etc [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.59 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 1.3 GAPPY_SUBJECT Subject: contains G.a.p.p.y-T.e.x.t X-Scan-Signature: 4e1fdad4778e32a801c14d75cd5d871a Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0132_01CF034F.7B5C9B00" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=GAPPY_SUBJECT,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2678 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0132_01CF034F.7B5C9B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's two different shows, =20 When it comes to the numbers then things can go wrong , the best = way is to run the two up the strip together , The best way to detect a carrier , as Stefan will tell you is = qrss as you can wind the time out as long as you like , then you=20 need to be stable , each end etc=20 G,=20 From: Bob Raide=20 Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:40 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014 G; Myself I don't care about source code, don't know what it is-don't want = to know. It's your secret that's fine but if you can add something that = under adverse conditions can make the difference in decode-correlation = or whatever you want to call it, I want it. Save me from building a 10 = times bigger transmitter, substantially lower antenna voltages for the = same decode-I want it! I guess it's an ego thing as someone else would = get credit for your development of the basic working system. =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:23:01 +0000 Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014 Its the old source code argument=20 There are plenty of locked systems in use , source code comes under = 'IP' Intellectual Property rights , there is no need to disclose as = long as all can use the same , sure some would like to see = 'how' but that's another angle , same with encryption, DSSS numeric = based data modes like Olivia , chip64, contessa , ros hf as long as = the software has the same keys then that meets the requirements=20 The Opera decoder is a data decoder , Marcus is running = correlation , pattern matching , two different things entirely , one = has high equipment over heads , the other uses anti noise/ fec/afc = software routines to negate hardware affects on system performance and = counteract propagation conditions , Opera is a averaging system and = requires for a decode , the average of the min s/n , from 50% of = the data randomly dispersed along the time line , ie first 50 last = 50 or any 50%=20 G,=20 From: Bob Raide=20 Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 8:53 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014 What your saying is for those of us wanting to improve things go play = with the other systems and leave OPERA just as it is? Bob =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:39:58 +0000 Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014 There are plenty of commercial data mode systems in use on the = Ham bands that are locked and not publicised , from my experience , = the locked systems seem to give a superior level of performance to = the open code versions , pactor-4 being a good example , using = modern ss techniques achieves high data/power ratio , but missing = is the cdma layer that would enhance b/w user efficiency , but = that exists in another locked data mode , which is free=20 So where /what is the problem ? G,=20 From: wolf_dl4yhf=20 Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:41 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014 Thanks for forwarding the message Bob - so I won't spend any effort in = implementing Opera myself if Markus's DS algorithm is really embedded in = the Ros-software. Despite the fact that I don't like, and will not use, the original Opera = software myself as long as its author makes such a secret of it, leaving = it to others to reverse-engineer the algorithms. Cheers, Wolf . Am 27.12.2013 19:31, schrieb Bob Raide: Trevor and all; Especially #1!!! If that alone could be accomplished the rest later = would do just fine. Bob, WG2XRS/4-4000 meters, WE2XEB-2200 meters, = WE2XGR/6-630/600 meters-W2ZM... =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com CC: tsmithers@cix.co.uk From: tsmithers@cix.co.uk Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:48:00 +0000 Subject: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014 =20 A few thoughts for Opera enhancements VLF to 160m (1) Deep Search Detector built in to existing Opera system with = ability to run alongside existing=20 Op decoders and report directly to PSK reporter=20 (2) Reinstate the dual receive function without having to open = multiple instances of the software. (3) Dynamically resizable screen or replace the dials with led bar = type indicators - would make=20 the overall screen size a little smaller. (4) Option to "tear off" the waterfall to enable positioning on = another part of the monitor screen -=20 like wsprx for example. Trevor G0KTN __._,_.___Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a = New Topic Messages in this topic (1) =20 Recent Activity: a.. New Members 3=20 Visit Your Group=20 =20 Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest =95 Unsubscribe =95 Terms of Use = =95 Send us Feedback=20 . =20 __,_._,___ ------=_NextPart_000_0132_01CF034F.7B5C9B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's  two different  shows,=20  
 
When it  comes to  the numbers  = then =20 things  can go  wrong , the  best  way  is = to  run=20 the  two  up the  strip  together ,
 
The  best  way to  detect  = a =20 carrier , as Stefan will  tell  you  is = qrss   as=20 you  can  wind the  time  out  as long as you = like ,=20 then you
need  to  be  stable  , each = end etc=20
 
G,

From: Bob Raide
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:40 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: RE: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for=20 2014

G;
Myself I don't care about source code, don't know = what=20 it is-don't want to know.  It's your secret that's fine but if = you can=20 add something that under adverse conditions can make the difference = in=20 decode-correlation or whatever you want to call it, I want = it.  Save=20 me from building a 10 times bigger transmitter, substantially lower = antenna=20 voltages for the same decode-I want it!  I guess it's an ego = thing as=20 someone else would get credit for your development of the basic=20 working  system.
 
From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Fri,=20 27 Dec 2013 21:23:01 +0000
Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera = upgrades=20 for 2014

Its  the old source  code  = argument=20
 
There are plenty of  locked  = systems  in=20 use , source code comes under  'IP' Intellectual Property = rights ,=20 there is no  need  to  disclose  as  long = as =20 all  can  use  the  same , sure =20 some  would  like to  see  'how'  but = that's=20 another angle  , same  with  encryption, DSSS = numeric based=20 data  modes like  Olivia , chip64, contessa , ros hf =   as=20 long  as  the  software  has the  same  = keys =20 then that  meets the  requirements
 
The Opera  decoder is  a  = data =20 decoder ,  Marcus is  running  correlation , = pattern =20 matching , two  different things entirely , one has high =20 equipment  over heads , the  other  uses anti noise/ = fec/afc  software routines to  negate hardware affects on = system=20 performance and counteract propagation conditions , Opera  is = a =20 averaging  system and  requires  for a decode , the  = average  of  the  min s/n  , from 50% of the =20 data  randomly dispersed along the  time  line , ie first = 50  last 50  or  any 50%
 
G,
 

From: Bob Raide
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 8:53 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: RE: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for=20 2014

What your saying is for those of us wanting to = improve things=20 go play with the other systems and leave OPERA just as it is?=20 Bob
 
From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To= : rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Date:=20 Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:39:58 +0000
Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] = Opera=20 upgrades for 2014

There  are plenty of  commercial  data  = mode =20 systems  in use  on the  Ham bands  that  are=20 locked  and not  publicised , from  my experience , = the =20 locked systems seem to  give a  superior level  of = performance=20  to the  open    code  versions , = pactor-4 =20 being a  good  example , using  modern  ss = techniques =20 achieves  high data/power  ratio , but  missing  is=20 the  cdma  layer that  would  enhance  = b/w  user=20 efficiency  , but  that  exists in another locked = data =20 mode , which is  free
 
So  where /what  is the  problem ?
 
G,

From: wolf_dl4yhf
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:41 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for=20 2014

Thanks for forwarding the message Bob - = so I won't=20 spend any effort in implementing Opera myself if Markus's DS algorithm = is really=20 embedded in the Ros-software.
Despite the fact that I don't like, and = will=20 not use, the original Opera software myself as long as its author makes = such a=20 secret of it, leaving it to others to reverse-engineer the=20 algorithms.

Cheers,
  Wolf .

Am 27.12.2013 19:31, = schrieb=20 Bob Raide:
Trevor and all;
Especially #1!!!  If that alone = could=20 be accomplished the rest later would do just fine. Bob,=20 WG2XRS/4-4000 meters, WE2XEB-2200 meters, WE2XGR/6-630/600=20 meters-W2ZM...
 
To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com=
CC:=20 tsmithers@cix.co.uk
From: = tsmithers@cix.co.uk
Date: = Fri, 27 Dec=20 2013 16:48:00 +0000
Subject: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for=20 2014

 =20
A few thoughts for Opera enhancements VLF to=20 160m

(1) Deep Search Detector built in to existing Opera system = with=20 ability to run alongside existing
Op decoders and report directly = to PSK=20 reporter

(2) Reinstate the dual receive function without = having to=20 open multiple instances of the software.

(3) Dynamically = resizable=20 screen or replace the dials with led bar type indicators - would make =
the=20 overall screen size a little smaller.

(4) Option to "tear off" = the=20 waterfall to enable positioning on another part of the monitor screen = -=20
like wsprx for example.

Trevor G0KTN


__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply=20 to sender Reply=20 to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) =
Recent Activity:=20 New Members 3
Visit Your Group
=20
Switch to: Text-Only,=20 Daily=20 Digest =95 Unsubscribe=20 =95 Terms of=20 Use =95 Send=20 us Feedback
.

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