Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1170; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id sBJNw6VC032329 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 2014 00:58:08 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Y27Ki-0007Kc-V5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 23:51:44 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Y27Ki-0007KT-AD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 23:51:44 +0000 Received: from omr-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.80]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Y27Kf-0003gm-7S for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 23:51:43 +0000 Received: from mtaout-aag02.mx.aol.com (mtaout-aag02.mx.aol.com [172.26.126.78]) by omr-m06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 3975B700308EC for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 18:51:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from White (ipb21bee4a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [178.27.238.74]) by mtaout-aag02.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 8D0B63800008D for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 18:51:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8A9AFD3075E04E45A539CF7F361E28BC@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <1418959674.694811.13758.46852@mail.rambler.ru>,<5494273A.6010007@gmail.com> <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A23493388@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be>,<54947E41.8090300@gmail.com> <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A234933DF@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 00:51:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1419033099; bh=bc9FOmVhA/NYwAVxRS0t8kyBcQ1/YT0L6z3rhhDJSfs=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=yN8TKHKwLzVMvW3Mxgkh70b2/0hAisZqRwM3w6hk9gK8QHvT2wxZVwzjOsIWVS7vG 168L6WzOWrGOqsf4ZKjG7IV5hjJxVJo2qfN6L6T5D+/6VX74/KCV4cvSqOvWbUoSyt E/HbyVmpwjb91PI7bpRlbpoAqAVdemqPkg6bZvDQ= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7e4e5494ba076683 X-AOL-IP: 178.27.238.74 X-Scan-Signature: 852e9a9ee930056348c0102e6df31911 Subject: Re: LF: RE: DLF 153 kHz QRT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01D01BEF.0661C9B0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1531 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01D01BEF.0661C9B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rik, Stefan, back in 2002, some of us were given the rare opportunity to use the = Donebach antenna for one summer afternoon (see emails below).=20 At the time we also considered trying 8970 Hz there. However, each of = the two Donebach antennas is actually a folded coaxial monopole around a = grounded central mast. The sleeve consists of a number of wires, run = from the mast apex, and paralleled at a feedpoint near the bottom. = Unfortunately at VLF, the radiation from upward currents in the sleeve = would be almost completely cancelled by downward current in the mast. So = we decided not to bother trying a relatively inefficient VLF antenna, = but rather make the best of the available time on 137 kHz. After some experimentation with different loading coils, we finally = found out that we didn't need any, as the antenna was already perfectly = matched on 137 kHz! Operating this 80% efficient radiator on a decent LF = transmitter throughout a winter night would surely be a dream. But nevertheless, I have to say I'm really sad to hear that AM broadcast = is bound to come to an end. 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Rik Strobbe=20 Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 11:23 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: RE: DLF 153 kHz QRT Hi Stefan, any chance to use the Donebach antenna on 8.9kHz? Even at that frequency the radiation resistance might be close to 0.1 = Ohm! 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Thema: LF: DLF-test=20 Datum: 26.07.02 19:51:44 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit=20 From: walter.staubach@fen-net.de (Walter)=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org (rsgb) =20 Hello to all LF`ers, dear friends, at first we have to say many many thanks to to all of you, who made = QSO=B4s with us or gave us reports, info and tips by mail or phone. And = we should like to thank the officials from RegTP and Deutsche Telekom = who allowed us the activity from the DLF-site and gave us every support. = I`ll give a summary. The first QSO took place at 8.45utc, testing with 1W, 5W and 20W (0.3A = antenna current), the last QSO was abt 14.00utc because of an = approaching thunderstorm 70Km apart. We made 19 QSO=B4s, 10 only on = 136KHz, 9 duplex 136/7030KHz. We received 7 phone calls, the = northernmost from Jan, LA8AK in Kristiansand. And we got mails from 16 different OM=B4s with a lot of reports, = measurements, tips and comments. The southernmost came from Brian CT1DRP = (we are glad to be the first audible signal for you and the friends from = Spain).=20 In the morning Markus matched the antenna with a homemade tuner by using = scope and other equipment and got 1,9A antenna current. In the afternoon = he connected the antenna directly to the amplifier - and got 2,2A ! One = should do the simple things first. It seems the DLF-antenna is especially made for our band.=20 Dave, I think your 5W are enough for a QSO. But the Frankfurt-area-noise = is very strong - even on 40m. And so was the local noise composed: The LF`er keying on 136 QSX 7030. In the background other boys of the = gang talking. A signal comes from the 40m-transceiver by speaker = (headphones forgotten), not so clear. The LF`er increases volume. The boys increasing their = loudness. The LF`er screaming "haltet mal die Klappe", what means "be = quiet, please". And then the mobile phone ringing and in the rear of the = house a worker with his lawn-mower. I think we need better organisation. Two LF`ers from Frankfurt visited us, 4 members of the maintenance = personnel came along, and even the regional Telekom-boss arrived and = asked kindly what happened. During noon 3 of our group drove around and made some measuring of our = fieldstrength. We will calculate and compare with the figures from Dick = and Jim. Markus will give another e-mail with more technical and = calculating details. The receiving conditions were bad as expected. We used a tuned loop, but = must be better next time ( yes, we hope for a next time). And we will = reduce our equipment. It is not necessary to take along 3 complete = stations, so much measuring equipment, several boxes with cables, = connectors, tools and material for every incident. 2 VW-variants were = fullfilled. But now we know more than before. We had a great event. Thanks for participating.=20 For the group: DF6NM Markus, DL2NDO Ralph, DK3GH Ralph, DL3NDR Roland 73 Walter DJ2LF Thema: LF: Activity from DLF=B4s 360m mast=20 Datum: 15.07.02 22:16:09 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit=20 From: walter.staubach@fen-net.de (Walter)=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org (rsgb) =20 =20 Hello to all LF`ers,=20 on Wednesday, 24th of July, the 153KHz transmitter of Deutschlandfunk in = Donebach (JN49ON, 50Km SSE of Frankfurt) will be off air due to = scheduled maintenance. By the friendly cooperation of the site personnel = and with consent of the regulation authorities, a small group of German = LF amateurs has been granted access to one of the 360m masts between = 7:00 and 15:00UTC. With a little luck we might be able to achieve about = 30dB more radiation efficiency than at home. We will probably need some time to work out the impedance matching. = After that, we intend to operate preferably in CW and Slow-CW modes. As = we expect a rather high noisefloor from the Frankfurt area, we will = bring along a tuned loop for receiving, and we will be QRV on 7030KHz in = CW as well. If nothing else works, please give us a phone call on+49 174 = 3692499, or send an email note via the reflector or to dj2lf@darc.de or = markusvester@aol.com.=20 Let`s look forward to a successfull day, hopefully without thunderstorms = or strong noise. 73 The group: Markus - DF6NM, Walter - DJ2LF, Ralph - DL2NDO, Ralph - = DK3GH, Roland - DL3NDR, Franz - DL5NER=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01D01BEF.0661C9B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Rik, Stefan,
 
back in 2002, some of us were given the = rare=20 opportunity to use the Donebach antenna for one summer afternoon=20 (see emails below). 
 
At the time we also considered trying = 8970 Hz=20 there. However, each of the two Donebach antennas is actually a = folded=20 coaxial monopole around a grounded central mast.=20 The sleeve consists of a number of wires, = run from the=20 mast apex, and paralleled at a feedpoint near the=20 bottom. Unfortunately at VLF, the radiation from upward = currents=20 in the sleeve would be almost completely cancelled by downward current = in the=20 mast. So we decided not to bother trying a relatively inefficient = VLF=20 antenna, but rather make the best of the available time on 137=20 kHz.
 
After some experimentation with = different=20 loading coils, we finally found out that we didn't need any, as the = antenna=20 was already perfectly matched on 137 kHz! Operating this 80% efficient = radiator=20 on a decent LF transmitter throughout a winter night would surely be a=20 dream.
 
But nevertheless, I have to say I'm = really sad=20 to hear that AM broadcast is bound to come to an end.
 
73, Markus (DF6NM)
 

From: Rik Strobbe
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 11:23 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: RE: LF: RE: DLF 153 kHz QRT

Hi Stefan,

any chance to use the Donebach antenna on 8.9kHz?

Even at that frequency the radiation resistance might be close = to 0.1=20 Ohm!

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T 

Thema: LF: DLF-test
Datum: 26.07.02 19:51:44 (MEZ) - = Mitteleurop.=20 Sommerzeit
From: walter.staubach@fen-net.de= (Walter)=20
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20 (rsgb)  
Hello to all LF`ers, dear = friends,
at first we have to say many many thanks = to to all=20 of you, who made QSO=B4s with us or gave us reports, info and tips by = mail or=20 phone. And we should like to thank the officials from RegTP and Deutsche = Telekom=20 who allowed us the activity from the DLF-site and gave us every support. =
I`ll give a summary.
The first QSO took place at 8.45utc, = testing with=20 1W, 5W and 20W (0.3A antenna current), the last QSO was abt 14.00utc = because of=20 an approaching thunderstorm 70Km apart. We made 19 QSO=B4s, 10 only on = 136KHz, 9=20 duplex 136/7030KHz. We received 7 phone calls, the northernmost from = Jan, LA8AK=20 in Kristiansand.
And we got mails from 16 different OM=B4s with a lot = of=20 reports, measurements, tips and comments. The southernmost came from = Brian=20 CT1DRP (we are glad to be the first audible signal for you and the = friends from=20 Spain).
In the morning Markus matched the antenna = with a=20 homemade tuner by using scope and other equipment and got 1,9A antenna = current.=20 In the afternoon he connected the antenna directly to the amplifier - = and got=20 2,2A ! One should do the simple things first.
It seems the = DLF-antenna is=20 especially made for our band.
Dave, I think your 5W are enough for a = QSO. But the=20 Frankfurt-area-noise is very strong - even on 40m. And so was the local = noise=20 composed:
The LF`er keying on 136 QSX 7030. In the background other = boys of=20 the gang talking. A signal comes from the 40m-transceiver by speaker = (headphones=20 forgotten),
not so clear. The LF`er increases volume. The boys = increasing=20 their loudness. The LF`er screaming "haltet mal die Klappe", what means = "be=20 quiet, please". And then the mobile phone ringing and in the rear of the = house a=20 worker with his lawn-mower. I think we need better = organisation.
Two LF`ers from Frankfurt visited us, 4 = members of=20 the maintenance personnel came along, and even the regional Telekom-boss = arrived=20 and asked kindly what happened.
During noon 3 of our group drove around = and made=20 some measuring of our fieldstrength. We will calculate and compare with = the=20 figures from Dick and Jim. Markus will give another e-mail with more = technical=20 and calculating details.
The receiving conditions were bad as = expected. We=20 used a tuned loop, but must be better next time ( yes, we hope for a = next time).=20 And we will reduce our equipment. It is not necessary to take along 3 = complete=20 stations, so much measuring equipment, several boxes with cables, = connectors,=20 tools and material for every incident. 2 VW-variants were fullfilled. = But now we=20 know more than before.
We had a great event. Thanks for = participating.=20
 
For the group: DF6NM Markus, DL2NDO Ralph, = DK3GH=20 Ralph, DL3NDR Roland
 
73 Walter DJ2LF
Thema: LF: Activity from DLF=B4s 360m mast =
Datum:=20 15.07.02 22:16:09 (MEZ) - Mitteleurop. Sommerzeit
From: walter.staubach@fen-net.de= (Walter)=20
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20 (rsgb)  
 

Hello to=20 all LF`ers,
on Wednesday, 24th of July, the 153KHz = transmitter=20 of Deutschlandfunk in Donebach (JN49ON, 50Km SSE of Frankfurt) will be = off air=20 due to scheduled maintenance. By the friendly cooperation of the site = personnel=20 and with consent of the regulation authorities, a small group of German = LF=20 amateurs has been granted access to one of the 360m masts between 7:00 = and=20 15:00UTC. With a little luck we might be able to achieve about 30dB more = radiation efficiency than at home.

We will probably need some time to = work out the=20 impedance matching. After that, we intend to operate preferably in CW = and=20 Slow-CW modes. As we expect a rather high noisefloor from the Frankfurt = area, we=20 will bring along a tuned loop for receiving, and we will be QRV on = 7030KHz in CW=20 as well. If nothing else works, please give us a phone call on+49 174 = 3692499,=20 or send an email note via the reflector or to dj2lf@darc.de or markusvester@aol.com. =
Let`s look forward to a successfull day, = hopefully=20 without thunderstorms or strong noise.
73
The group: Markus - DF6NM, Walter - = DJ2LF,=20 Ralph - DL2NDO, Ralph - DK3GH, Roland - DL3NDR, Franz - DL5NER
 
 
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