Return-Path: Received: from rly-dg09.mx.aol.com (rly-dg09.mail.aol.com [172.19.151.93]) by air-dg02.mail.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILINDG022-5ef4ace28be315; Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:00:47 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by rly-dg09.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINDG094-5ef4ace28be315; Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:00:32 -0400 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1MvxHG-0005II-Up for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:59:46 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1MvxHG-0005I9-IC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:59:46 +0100 Received: from smtp816.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([77.238.189.16]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1MvxFq-0008IX-Fk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:58:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 64303 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2009 17:59:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=yjkznsUX+wCxFX3uZGUJx9ydkjyAhXQNB2xi3Z6liizVqXMRYJd0l0826dfzPQn69F+wTC5aF9ryIrZQ/aCCyy0DN84B36QyubZMQavDB8pn6n3DoiaLUEqHRWsR4Zc6VB7wFy97aYEPAp52r/mwrjQyXZcc+JvDYiYhEwzu4YQ= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.179.130.177 with login) by smtp816.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2009 17:59:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: e6rsM9oVM1noFeRbUoW3V_qY8pFyiM7__cMenWvWPAvIjzshcxgmkqbFet_5Lh5L_9Ivi5Q3gPir9ckcMZCsBd0d_Bf8oS3tHDxB7.bWJUk0mCyxWiWIUwgDHmalY8F0e269XHpgAlnDTyopfmPJRgxOPAz.kUxl6s_prSsS5gtOyzLHt7RDjBT8nhQGUJEJWmDAassVBKtn.i0muvgy5UG_vLlnqhHqyv5q0uqVTpJQ_bzKznONZatYuWg7BpDwbHgcWphJE3v_EyOrPHXlevBlgJQcwUhQoVbT X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <865A6F2FC37344A4825C5068AA8ED091@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <1034F871DB99454AB819054B51F39B19@IBM7FFA209F07C> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 18:59:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-Karma: unknown: DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: ERP at LF - Method 3 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Markus, Rik, I think Rik's description is a variant of Markus' method - both using the principle of reciprocity to evaluate the properties of a transmitting antenna by measuring the received signal level produced by a known field strength. So this is indeed a third method. It is interesting that this does not actually require the field strength to be measured in order to get the effective height/radiation resistance/efficiency - just the ratio between the TX antenna output level and the measuring antenna output level. However, to get the ERP when actually transmitting, an absolute measurement of antenna current or TX power would be needed. So in summary, methods to determine ERP: Method 1 - requires "calibrated" TX antenna (i.e. antenna effective height/radiation resistance calculated from dimensions), with calibrated antenna current measurement (or power and impedance). Simplest in terms of equipment needed and measurement , but least reliable because environmental losses only partly included. Method 2 - requires calibrated receive antenna (loop) and calibrated measuring receiver to measure receive antenna output voltage/power etc. Most difficult to do due to equipment needed and (multiple) far-field FS measurements. Includes effect of environmental losses. Requires no knowledge of transmitter/antenna, apart from where it is - most useful for Ofcom/FCC etc. Method 3 - requires calibrated receive antenna (loop) and calibrated antenna current (power/impedance etc.) measurement, plus ratio of received signal levels. Intermediate equipment requirement (Also a suitable signal is required, e.g. DCF39). Includes effect of environmental losses. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU