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From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
References: <5247E37F.7080300@gmx.de> <52485B7C.3000708@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <52485E9B.2020309@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
In-Reply-To: <52485E9B.2020309@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 20:17:43 +0100
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Subject: Re: LF: 74550 XRS in Germany
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Oh   no  not  again  , another  from the  Hungarian phase  book  !

wspr is  a  data  mode  and  qrss  is  a  carrier  detection   system  =
... there  needs  to  be  round  8/10 dB more  signal  or  8/10  dB more =
 sensitivity   to  be  able  to  extract   the  modulation  pay  load  =
at the  RX   ..  and in the  case of  correlation  , this  is  better  =
as  the   'pattern'  is  being   matched , using  a  pre  known  pattern =
, but  I think the  standard CW pattern has only a  few  state changes  =
, where  the  256  blocks  of  another  well  known  washing powder  =
gives better results=20
bur  wspr  uses 4fsk   so  its  not  possible  to  correlate  , so  that =
 removes  the  other  chances or decode   at the   ariel  and detection  =
when using  on/off  keying=20

:_)
=20


From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 6:08 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Subject: Re: LF: 74550 XRS in Germany


PS: Even QRSS-60 is more promising than WSPR-15 for initial experiments. =
So the simple modes are still the right way to go.=20

PPS: I find a small part of this quick success is also due to the =
existence of this reflecor which helps to motivate active (RX or TX) =
LF/MF/VLF radio amateurs to motivate each other  :-)

73, Stefan

Am 29.09.2013 18:55, schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer:=20
  Hello Bob and Hartmut,=20

  My congratulation for that success. Both of you must have a very =
suitable system to radiate respectively receive a signal on the 4000m =
band!=20

  Bob, can you transmit DFCW? If 4000m behaves reasonable like 2200m, =
then DFCW-180 should be a good choice! It is a bit slower and may allow =
reception of your signal even for station with lower RX sensitivity than =
Hartmut offers. Also DFCW gives you a better ID since the frequency =
shift is another indicator which separates your signal from random =
QRM...

  73, GL, Stefan/DK7FC


  Am 29.09.2013 10:23, schrieb Hartmut Wolff:=20
    Bob,=20

    the capture is a bit tiny, because I used a qrss 120 screen. Your =
signal was drifting and you crossed the Loran line just before 04:00. =
For the future a frequency 1 Hz lower would be better.=20

    73=20

    Hartmut=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-15 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.23520"></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: =
15px"=20
id=3DMailContainerBody leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0 bgColor=3D#ffffff =
text=3D#000000=20
CanvasTabStop=3D"true" name=3D"Compose message area">
<DIV>Oh&nbsp;&nbsp; no&nbsp; not&nbsp; again&nbsp; , another&nbsp; from=20
the&nbsp; Hungarian phase &nbsp;book&nbsp; !</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>wspr</STRONG> is&nbsp; a&nbsp;=20
<STRONG><U><EM>data&nbsp;</EM></U></STRONG> mode&nbsp; and&nbsp;=20
<STRONG>qrss</STRONG>&nbsp; is&nbsp; a&nbsp;<EM><U> =
<STRONG>carrier&nbsp;=20
detection</STRONG></U></EM>&nbsp;&nbsp; system&nbsp; ... there&nbsp; =
needs&nbsp;=20
to&nbsp; be&nbsp; round&nbsp; 8/10 dB more&nbsp; signal&nbsp; or&nbsp;=20
8/10&nbsp; dB more&nbsp; sensitivity&nbsp;&nbsp; to&nbsp; be&nbsp; =
able&nbsp;=20
to&nbsp; extract&nbsp;&nbsp; the&nbsp; modulation&nbsp; pay&nbsp; =
load&nbsp; at=20
the&nbsp; RX &nbsp; ..&nbsp; and in the&nbsp; case of&nbsp; =
correlation&nbsp; ,=20
this&nbsp; is&nbsp; better&nbsp; as&nbsp; the&nbsp;&nbsp; =
'pattern'&nbsp;=20
is&nbsp; being&nbsp;&nbsp; matched , using&nbsp; a&nbsp; pre&nbsp; =
known&nbsp;=20
pattern , but&nbsp; I think the&nbsp; standard CW pattern has only =
a&nbsp;=20
few&nbsp; state changes&nbsp; , where&nbsp; the&nbsp; 256&nbsp; =
blocks&nbsp;=20
of&nbsp; another&nbsp; well&nbsp; known&nbsp; washing powder&nbsp; gives =
better=20
results </DIV>
<DIV>bur&nbsp; wspr&nbsp; uses 4fsk&nbsp;&nbsp; so&nbsp; its&nbsp; =
not&nbsp;=20
possible&nbsp; to&nbsp; correlate&nbsp; , so&nbsp; that&nbsp; =
removes&nbsp;=20
the&nbsp; other&nbsp; chances&nbsp;or decode&nbsp;&nbsp; at the&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;<STRONG>ariel </STRONG>&nbsp;and detection &nbsp;when using&nbsp;=20
on/off&nbsp; keying </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>:_)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><FONT size=3D3 face=3DArial></FONT><FONT size=3D3 =
face=3DArial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3D"mailto:Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de&#10;CTRL + Click =
to follow link"=20
href=3D"mailto:Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de">Stefan =
Sch=E4fer</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 29, 2013 6:08 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org&#10;CTRL + Click to follow =
link"=20
href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: LF: 74550 XRS in Germany</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>PS: Even <STRONG>QRSS-60 is more promising than =
WSPR-15</STRONG>=20
for initial experiments. So the simple modes are still the right way to =
go.=20
<BR><BR>PPS: I find a small part of this quick success is also due to =
the=20
existence of this reflecor which helps to motivate <U>active</U> (RX or =
TX)=20
LF/MF/VLF radio amateurs to motivate each other&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>73,=20
Stefan<BR><BR>Am 29.09.2013 18:55, schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid:52485B7C.3000708@iup.uni-heidelberg.de =
type=3D"cite">Hello=20
  Bob and Hartmut, <BR><BR>My congratulation for that success. Both of =
you must=20
  have a very suitable system to radiate respectively receive a signal =
on the=20
  4000m band! <BR><BR>Bob, can you transmit DFCW? If 4000m behaves =
reasonable=20
  like 2200m, then<B> DFCW-180</B> should be a good choice! It is a bit =
slower=20
  and may allow reception of your signal even for station with lower RX=20
  sensitivity than Hartmut offers. Also DFCW gives you a better ID since =
the=20
  frequency shift is another indicator which separates your signal from =
random=20
  QRM...<BR><BR>73, GL, Stefan/DK7FC<BR><BR><BR>Am 29.09.2013 10:23, =
schrieb=20
  Hartmut Wolff:=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid:5247E37F.7080300@gmx.de type=3D"cite">Bob, =
<BR><BR>the=20
    capture is a bit tiny, because I used a qrss 120 screen. Your signal =
was=20
    drifting and you crossed the Loran line just before 04:00. For the =
future a=20
    frequency 1 Hz lower would be better. <BR><BR>73 <BR><BR>Hartmut=20
  <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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