Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dk02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 04D84380000BF; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 18:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1SjHvI-0002M1-Le for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:38:20 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1SjHvH-0002Ls-NO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:38:19 +0100 Received: from smtpout3.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.59] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SjHvE-0000A6-5U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:38:18 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.45.169]) by mwinf5d37 with ME id SmeE1j0033f0J8203meEaL; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 00:38:15 +0200 Message-ID: <7D46521111C34DC380603D43B22BCB8D@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <20120625.113436.1661.631277@mailpop04.vgs.untd.com> <1340654283.10216.YahooMailNeo@web171603.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <1340658147.14634.YahooMailNeo@web171604.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1340658147.14634.YahooMailNeo@web171604.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:38:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 120625-0, 25/06/2012), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: R Pete Ahh By split , I mean the anti-jam in channel split , When on the same frequency, the ground TX (used tobe ?) off set from the aircraft Tx frequency , so if the Aircraft TX jammed 'ON' then other aircraft could still receive the ground , that was the reason for wide IF pass bands and keeping to AM for the comm.'s .... Marine coms , adopted FM ... [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.59 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: b6451ee7f2b576a2ba2fb8334c73aa80 Subject: Re: LF: SDR programs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0068_01CD532B.96A61BA0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:488877728:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1db4064fe8e8956fec X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01CD532B.96A61BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable R Pete=20 Ahh By split , I mean the anti-jam in channel split , When on = the same frequency, the ground TX (used tobe ?) off set from = the aircraft Tx frequency , so if the Aircraft TX jammed 'ON' = then other aircraft could still receive the ground , that was = the reason for wide IF pass bands and keeping to AM for the = comm.'s .... Marine coms , adopted FM ... There is a afc for cw=20 OT ? over the top more like , the disclaimer on the = yab-a-dab-a-doo group is bigger than the space left for the = messages , I think the name Black-Sheep seems to be quite apt = now !,=20 Big-bang , according to my arrl hand book , HF communications = will tend to be attenuated in the direction of the burst , = assume by producing quite a big Fariday screen , also recommends = you keep your radio in a metal sweet tin ala blue peter garden = ! =20 Did get good signals on the MW on the way to work from France = during the eclipse some time ago , due to the lack of ionisation = G.. From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:02 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: SDR programs Hi Graham ............ to monitor off frequency nets and the tower/aircraft = split............... ? there is no split frequency working the Tower and = A/C both use the same QRG its just that the A/C being at altitude can be = heard the Tower being low and beyond your radio horizon can not be = heard........ if thats what you ment. I use the say (A) LO for Approach and then say (B) LO for Tower so when = the hand over from Approach to Tower occures I merely click the = appropriate LO A or B. Usually a 3 to 4 meg shift, well it is at Luton = AP anyway. Sorry wrong end of the spectrum for this reflector........ just as well = the RSGB attention is with the Yahoo mess otherwise we may be getting = our keying fingers rapped!!!!!! 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, 25 June 2012, 21:19 Subject: Re: LF: SDR programs Yes I think Andy gave a talk at the egham convention on using = a/d from mobile phones , the new ones had the extra bits to = give the full dynamic range on HF ..he was using hardware block = convertors ......... never saw any items offered for sale = ........only some very high price 'HF rx' using the same ideas = ...I think the give away is the band being covered in frequency = blocks , which I assume is down to the down convertors=20 Dont think he is monitoring BS now , or we might of got the = fill in, but one things is certain, the =C2=A310 , wonder-dongle = has saved me from buying a R7000 ...All we need now is a = little more stability in the control software and a wide-band = FM option in HDSDR =20 Im getting the gb3ang beacon on 70 Mhz good signal with my = indoor 2 ele quad .......... the PMR band on 446 Mhz with the = co-linera from 10 miles away in liverpool ssb on 144 MHz etc =20 Definable FM-AFC (AND AM) would be handy to monitor off = frequency nets and the tower/aircraft split=20 I think possible the driver software could improve as more take = up the idea ....... could HDSDR have its own driver code block = .......... Ive noticed there is a routine that some times = appears that 'purges' the device ......now if that could be run = at will , that would be a big help, to recover a locked = system=20 73 -G. From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 8:58 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: SDR programs Hi Bob If you are directing that mail to me then you need to look at earlier = posts. However if you are a cheque book Ham then it will be of little interest = to you.=20 You say dangle we say dongle..... :-0 These are TV front ends that use the SDR principle and plug straight = into your USB port on your Lap top. Normally they are for recieving = local digital TV and radio plus a FM band as well. They are available in = the US and they can be made to tune from about 60megs to about 1.7gigs. = If I need to tell you more please ask but this is all in public domain = on the web (but not in Ham mags, at least not in UK). I have played with = these things for about 6 months now and for a few quid (dollars) are = fun. If you build a simple up converter with a say a 60meg LO guess = what, you have an all band HF radio as well. Oh and BTW I was not entirely sure what Tracy was getting at below?? We = are talking 10 dollars not 300+dollars. 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: "riese-k3djc@juno.com" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, 25 June 2012, 19:34 Subject: Re: LF: SDR programs =EF=BB=BF=20 Been Kinda out of any loop on this =20 BUT if what I read,, if I connect a TV tuner usb dangle witht he correct = chip set it will cover MF to HF using an appropriate program. I use HDSDR with = my SDR IQ which I like for general reception. So by using the proper chip set = HDSDR will run that TV dangle as a HF radio ?? Bob K3DJC On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:31:00 +0100 "Tracey Gardner" = writes: Hello Pete If we're talking about low priced SDRs, there is a relatively new kid = on the block in the form of the Afedri SDR-Net from Israel. It is what I will refer to as a "proper" SDR i.e. a direct sampling = digital down conversion SDR. It covers 100kHz to 30MHz, has a maximum bandwidth of 1.25MHz and has = a LAN interface for remote access. The best bit is that it costs just over =C2=A3200 inc shipping and = VAT. You can find more details here http://4z5lv.net/index.php/afedri-sdr-net-description https://www.box.com/s/1cd9353fa35b1022925e I've no connection other than being a satisfied customer. 73s Tracey G5VU ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:55 PM Subject: Re: LF: SDR programs Hi Mal The whole reason these things are getting so much attention is the = price and the fact they are independent of a sound card or A/D = converter. They are not really suitable for or give any advantage on LF = because you need an up converter in front. A Softrock SDR with a good = sound card will out perform these sticks at MF/LF.IMHO I don't think its = worth persuing to be honest. However I think with the DVB-T sticks = people have been opening them up to look at the SMT chip marking if not = sure. It looks like they don't erase the markings like some well known = LF TX suppiers do. Oh and the software plug-ins are only for the RTL2832 = chipset. 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX ------=_NextPart_000_0068_01CD532B.96A61BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
R Pete
 
Ahh   By  split , I mean the  = anti-jam  =20 in channel  split  , When  on the  same  = frequency,=20 the  ground  TX  (used tobe ?)   off  = set =20 from the  aircraft  Tx  frequency  , so  = if=20 the  Aircraft TX jammed  'ON' then  other  = aircraft =20 could  still  receive  the  ground   , = that =20 was  the  reason  for  wide  IF pass  = bands=20 and  keeping  to AM  for the  comm.'s .... =20 Marine  coms  , adopted  FM ...
 
There is a  afc  for  cw
 
 
OT ?  over the  top  more like ,  the  = disclaimer=20 on the  yab-a-dab-a-doo  group    is bigger  = than=20 the  space  left  for the  messages , I think = the =20 name  Black-Sheep  seems  to  be  quite  = apt =20 now  !,
 
Big-bang  , according  to  my  arrl  = hand =20 book , HF communications  will  tend to  be =20 attenuated  in the  direction  of the  burst  , = assume  by  producing  quite  a big =20 Fariday   screen , also  recommends  you  = keep =20 your  radio  in a  metal  sweet tin ala   = blue=20 peter  garden ! 
 
Did  get  good  signals  on the  MW on = the =20 way  to  work  from  France  during  = the =20 eclipse some  time  ago  , due to the  lack  = of =20 ionisation
 
G..
 

From: M0FMT
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 10:02 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: SDR programs

Hi Graham
 
 
............ to monitor off frequency nets and the = tower/aircraft=20 split............... ? there is no split frequency working the = Tower and=20 A/C both use the same QRG its just that the A/C being at = altitude can=20 be heard the Tower being low and beyond your radio horizon can not be=20 heard........ if thats what you ment.
 
I use the say (A) LO for Approach and then say (B) LO = for Tower=20 so when the hand over from Approach to Tower occures I merely click the=20 appropriate LO A or B. Usually a 3 to 4 meg shift, well it is at = Luton AP=20 anyway.
 
Sorry wrong end of the spectrum for this reflector........ = just as=20 well the RSGB attention is with the Yahoo mess otherwise we may be = getting our=20 keying fingers rapped!!!!!!
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Graham=20 <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Sent: Monday, 25 = June 2012,=20 21:19
Subject: Re: = LF: SDR=20 programs

Yes I think  Andy  gave a talk  at the  = egham =20 convention  on using   a/d  from  mobile  = phones ,=20 the  new  ones had the  extra  bits  to  = give=20 the  full  dynamic  range on  HF ..he  = was =20 using   hardware  block  convertors ......... = never =20 saw  any  items  offered  for  sale =20 ........only  some  very  high price  'HF rx' =20 using  the  same  ideas  ...I think  the =20 give  away  is  the  band  being  covered = in=20 frequency   blocks , which I assume  is  down = to =20 the  down  convertors
 
Dont  think  he is  monitoring  BS now , = or =20 we  might  of  got the  fill  in, but  one = things  is  certain, the =C2=A310 , wonder-dongle  = has =20 saved  me  from  buying  a  R7000 ...All = we =20 need  now  is  a  little  more  = stability  in=20 the   control  software  and  a =20 wide-band  FM option in  HDSDR 
 
Im getting the  gb3ang   beacon  on  70 = Mhz =20 good  signal  with  my indoor   2 ele  = quad=20 .......... the  PMR band  on  446 Mhz  with = the =20 co-linera  from  10 miles away in liverpool  ssb on 144 = MHz =20 etc 
 
Definable  FM-AFC  (AND  AM)=20    would be handy  to  monitor  off =20 frequency  nets  and the  tower/aircraft   = split
 
I think  possible  the  driver  software =20 could  improve  as  more  take  up  = the =20 idea  ....... could  HDSDR have  its  own  = driver =20 code  block  .......... Ive  noticed there  is = a =20 routine  that  some  times  appears  that  = 'purges'  the  device  ......now  if that  = could =20 be  run at   will  , that  would  be a = big =20 help, to  recover  a  locked   system
 
73 -G.
From: M0FMT
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: LF: SDR programs

Hi Bob
 
If you are directing that mail to me then you need to look at = earlier=20 posts.
 
However if you are a cheque book Ham then it will be of = little=20 interest to you.
 
You say dangle we say dongle..... :-0
 
These are TV front ends that use the SDR principle and plug = straight=20 into your USB port on your Lap top. Normally they are for recieving = local=20 digital TV and radio plus a FM band as well. They are available in the = US and=20 they can be made to tune from about 60megs to about 1.7gigs. If I = need to=20 tell you more please ask but this is all in public domain on the web = (but not in=20 Ham mags, at least not in UK). I have played with these things for about = 6=20 months now and for a few quid (dollars) are fun. If you build a = simple up=20 converter with a say a 60meg LO guess what, you have an all band HF = radio=20 as well.
 
Oh and BTW I was not entirely sure what Tracy was getting at = below??=20 We are talking 10 dollars not 300+dollars.
 
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From:=20 "riese-k3djc@juno.com" <riese-k3djc@juno.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Sent: Monday, 25 = June 2012,=20 19:34
Subject: Re: = LF: SDR=20 programs

=EF=BB=BF=20
 
Been Kinda out of any loop on this  
 
BUT
 
if what I read,, if I connect a TV tuner usb dangle witht he = correct chip=20 set
it will cover MF to HF using  an appropriate program. I use = HDSDR with=20 my SDR IQ
which I like for general reception. So by using the proper chip set = HDSDR
will run that TV dangle as a HF radio
 
??
 
Bob K3DJC
 
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:31:00 +0100 "Tracey Gardner" <tracey.gardner@talktalk.ne= t>=20 writes:
Hello Pete
 
If we're talking about low priced SDRs, there is a relatively new = kid on=20 the block in the form of the Afedri SDR-Net from Israel.
It is what I will refer to as a "proper" SDR i.e. a direct = sampling=20 digital down conversion SDR.
It covers 100kHz to 30MHz, has a maximum bandwidth of 1.25MHz and = has a=20 LAN interface for remote access.
The best bit is that it costs just over =C2=A3200 inc shipping = and VAT.
 
You can find more details here
 
 
 
I've no connection other than being a satisfied customer.
 
73s Tracey G5VU
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 M0FMT =
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Sent:=20 Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:55 PM
Subject:=20 Re: LF: SDR programs

Hi Mal
 
The whole reason these things are getting so much attention is = the=20 price and the fact they are independent of a sound card or A/D=20 converter. They are not really suitable for or give any = advantage on LF=20 because you need an up converter in front. A Softrock SDR with a = good sound=20 card will out perform these sticks at MF/LF.IMHO I don't think = its=20 worth persuing to be honest. However I think with the DVB-T sticks = people=20 have been opening them up to look at the SMT chip marking if not = sure. It=20 looks like they don't erase the markings like some well known LF TX = suppiers=20 do. Oh and the software plug-ins are only for the RTL2832 = chipset.
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
=
 




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