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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id h16si11617573wjr.14.2014.03.07.16.22.52 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 16:22:52 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=fail (test mode) header.i=@btinternet.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WM4bL-0001RM-Sj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 23:54:51 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WM4bL-0001RD-55 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 23:54:51 +0000 Received: from smtpout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk ([65.20.0.124]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WM4bI-000315-0L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 23:54:50 +0000 X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A090202.531A5C46.0226,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=12/97,refid=2.7.2:2014.3.7.180914:17:12.731,ip=,rules=__HAS_MSGID, __SANE_MSGID, MSGID_32HEX_LC, INVALID_MSGID_NO_FQDN, __MSGID_32HEX, __HAS_FROM, __PHISH_FROM2, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL_FROM, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY, __CTYPE_MULTIPART, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __ANY_URI, __FRAUD_BODY_WEBMAIL, __URI_NO_WWW, __CP_MEDIA_BODY, __CP_URI_IN_BODY, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE, SUPERLONG_LINE, __HTML_FONT_BLUE, __HAS_HTML, BODY_SIZE_10000_PLUS, __MIME_HTML, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML, __STYLE_RATWARE_NEG, __URI_NS, HTML_90_100, __PHISH_FROM, __OUTLOOK_MUA, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Received: from gnat (86.178.175.13) by smtpout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (8.6.100.99.10223) (authenticated as alan.melia@btinternet.com) id 53184DE9000F28D0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 23:54:46 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1394236488; bh=3rwLoLCb4EHVIgZR+uj1ntEGFevUyPTE9D/bkZiSuU8=; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer; b=nN1bXCe9I1b5FXe8xaKzzjlC7KB3GCcvb55nybSZN7DO49BaQ2jhDqy+OgM4f2OGHfASXEOnJtQkM4/v2yjst6dHy7FnwMLql0FY0ylySo9xW8GirKJ33X3gox+vhQvkkiCmEHGHabWMbZDk2dRB4cmblgGdkT1pLi4tJgGYGUo= Message-ID: <75EE50F214B04B68990F70FD19D33FC9@gnat> From: "Alan Melia" To: References: <2662DF5AA7FA416CBB09CDB90BBFF7B1@White> <016101cf39df$4f4c89a0$ede59ce0$@comcast.net>, <01dc01cf3a3f$86997bb0$93cc7310$@comcast.net>, <2FC5CAB271A6437CB35A5B100185CEDA@White> <025101cf3a52$e0925750$a1b705f0$@comcast.net> <7DB9DD5669FC4C648838510DCAC08AFB@White> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 23:54:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Markus this dome shape, peaking at mid-day at mid-path, is very clear on all LF and VLF plots, and yes it does get better in summer!! Also I have found that daytime mid-day levels are enhanced for a day and sometimes two days after a geomagnetic storm, due I think to the extra electron density in the D-layer from precipitated "hot" electrons.....being hot they take longer to decay than photo-dissociated electrons even at 50km altitude. The daytime enhancement can be as much as 6dB after a Geomag storm, useful but not as much as to give similar levels as night-time. The "waveguide" is also narrower in daytime, so the signal contact the lossy region more often. We have predicted these on 136 and the effect on short paths was confirmed by John W1TAG and Jay W1VD. This confirms that "ionosheric-wave" is present in daytime, and at distance it is not all ground-wave. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.20.0.124 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: b6e173eae2d8801837a278551cd4e2dd Subject: LF: Re: Daytime 29.499 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CF3A60.9BA1B010" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_60_70, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CF3A60.9BA1B010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Markus this dome shape, peaking at mid-day at mid-path, is very clear = on all LF and VLF plots, and yes it does get better in summer!! Also I = have found that daytime mid-day levels are enhanced for a day and = sometimes two days after a geomagnetic storm, due I think to the extra = electron density in the D-layer from precipitated "hot" = electrons.....being hot they take longer to decay than photo-dissociated = electrons even at 50km altitude. The daytime enhancement can be as much = as 6dB after a Geomag storm, useful but not as much as to give similar = levels as night-time. The "waveguide" is also narrower in daytime, so = the signal contact the lossy region more often. We have predicted these = on 136 and the effect on short paths was confirmed by John W1TAG and Jay = W1VD. This confirms that "ionosheric-wave" is present in daytime, and at = distance it is not all ground-wave. Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 10:33 PM Subject: LF: Daytime 29.499 kHz Guess this thread needs a new title... Paul's LWPC interface is here: http://abelian.org/lwpc/ It seems that the broad midday maximum appears consistently on = different medium-range VLF paths, also on most 100 kHz Loran-C traces. = Simplistic interpretation: With higher solar elevation, ionisation = penetrates to lower layers and produces a steeper conductivity gradient, = quite in analogy to a metal mirror. However this would predict that = midday reflection would be stronger in summer? Looking forward to Bob's test tomorrow! Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: hvanesce=20 Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:16 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial Freq... Markus, =20 I'm glad that you suggested a 2-hour time slot (if it works for Bob). = Based on your NAA spectrogram (attached), the window that you're = shooting for may be a multimode interference peak, which might be = shifted (an hour or so?) for a Penn Yan path; and I don't know which = direction in time the window would shift.=20 =20 Paul is doing so many things that I hate to mention this, but I wonder = if LWPC would show the interference peak near 1500 UT; and if so, which = direction in time the peak would shift for the Penn Yan path. =20 I seem to remember that Paul provided an online interface to LWPC, = I'll see if I can find it. =20 73, Jim AA5BW =20 =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Markus Vester Sent: Friday, March 7, 2014 2:45 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial Freq... =20 Bob,=20 =20 how about a straight carrier on 29.499, from 14 to 16 UT? The narrow = grabbers will be on even if I have to be away. Results may depend on the = qrn situation here (aka Eu weather). =20 73, Markus =20 From: Bob Raide=20 Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 10:29 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial Freq... =20 Markus; With you home [not at work] tomorrow lets try around that 1500. I = left the signal on two nights ago till 1200 but after 0800 signal was = gone till 2400 next night. =20 What mode and what time you want signal? Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 21:45:19 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial Freq... Jim, =20 I would think that the main difference between Todmorden and Nuernberg = is that I'm into the sunrise dip an hour earlier. And my noise = background is higher, so I tend to completely lose a weak signal which = Paul would still receive well. =20 Anyway looking at the attached NAA plot I'm sort of perplexed by the = strong propagation during the day. If Bob decided to transmit sometime = around 15 UT, there's a good chance we'd pick it up. =20 Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 ...=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CF3A60.9BA1B010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Markus this dome shape, peaking at = mid-day at=20 mid-path, is very clear on all LF and VLF plots, and yes it does = get better=20 in summer!! Also I have found that daytime mid-day levels are enhanced = for a day=20 and sometimes two days after a geomagnetic storm, due I think to the = extra=20 electron density in the D-layer from precipitated "hot" = electrons.....being hot=20 they take longer to decay than photo-dissociated electrons even at 50km=20 altitude. The daytime enhancement can be as much as 6dB after a Geomag = storm,=20 useful but not as much as to give similar levels as night-time. The = "waveguide"=20 is also narrower in daytime, so the signal contact the lossy region more = often.=20 We have predicted these on 136 and the effect on short paths was = confirmed by=20 John W1TAG and Jay W1VD. This confirms that "ionosheric-wave" is present = in=20 daytime, and at distance it is not all ground-wave.
 
Alan
G3NYK
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 = 10:33=20 PM
Subject: LF: Daytime 29.499 = kHz

Guess this thread needs a new=20 title...
 
Paul's LWPC interface is here: = http://abelian.org/lwpc/
 
It seems that the broad midday = maximum appears=20 consistently on different medium-range VLF = paths, also on=20 most 100 kHz Loran-C traces. Simplistic=20 interpretation: With higher solar elevation, = ionisation penetrates=20 to lower layers and produces a steeper conductivity gradient, = quite in=20 analogy to a metal mirror. However this would predict that midday = reflection=20 would be stronger in summer?
 
Looking forward to Bob's test = tomorrow!
 
Best = 73,
Markus = (DF6NM)

From: hvanesce
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:16 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: RE: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 = Dial=20 Freq...

Markus,

 

I=92m=20 glad that you suggested a 2-hour time slot (if it works for Bob). = Based on=20 your NAA spectrogram (attached), the window that you=92re shooting for = may be a=20 multimode interference peak, which might be shifted (an hour or so?) = for a=20 Penn Yan path; and I don=92t know which direction in time the window = would=20 shift.

 

Paul=20 is doing so many things that I hate to mention this, but I wonder if = LWPC=20 would show the interference peak near 1500 UT; and if so, which = direction in=20 time the peak would shift for the Penn Yan path.

 

I=20 seem to remember that Paul provided an online interface to LWPC, = I=92ll see if I=20 can find it.

 

73, =20 Jim AA5BW   

 

From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]=20 On Behalf Of Markus Vester
Sent: Friday, March 7, = 2014 2:45=20 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: = LF: New=20 OPERA OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial=20 Freq...

 

Bob, =

 

how about = a=20 straight carrier on 29.499, from 14 to 16 UT? The narrow grabbers = will be=20 on even if I have to be away. Results may depend on the qrn=20 situation here (aka Eu weather).

 

73,=20 Markus

 

From: Bob = Raide=20

Sent: Friday, = March 07,=20 2014 10:29 PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20

Subject: RE: LF: = New OPERA=20 OP/OPDS 2H tonight on 27.945 Dial=20 Freq...

 


 Markus;
With you home=20 [not at work] tomorrow lets try around that 1500.  I left the = signal on=20 two nights ago till 1200 but after 0800 signal was gone till 2400 next = night. 
What mode and what time you want signal? =20 Bob

From: markusvester@aol.com
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Date:=20 Fri, 7 Mar 2014 21:45:19 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: New OPERA OP/OPDS = 2H=20 tonight on 27.945 Dial Freq...

Jim,

 

I would = think that=20 the main difference between Todmorden and Nuernberg is that I'm into = the=20 sunrise dip an hour earlier. And my noise background is higher, so I = tend to=20 completely lose a weak signal which Paul would still receive=20 well.

 

Anyway = looking at=20 the attached NAA plot I'm sort of perplexed by the=20 strong propagation during the day. If Bob decided to transmit = sometime=20 around 15 UT, there's a good chance we'd pick it up.

 

Best=20 73,

Markus=20 (DF6NM)

 

... 

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