Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.91]) by air-mf01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF012-8bca4b83cad827c; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:32:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AC651380000C5; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjtvD-0000nx-Tq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjtvD-0000nn-68 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:27 +0000 Received: from web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.132]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njtv9-0002fz-O6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:27 +0000 Received: (qmail 75919 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2010 12:31:17 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266928277; bh=Wv6IrZMCXaXDz5SrTMSCcyWBfL4oi2LHCAlp56YO8BY=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Qx8PC0NIFjSzhFFkcQWJuH7Xm1FGSj6wj22WhRmM5PHF55oC8WMiDSRR56Wf5LgJktc2WBTEk6lNeo3U30K9JoC2ycxG4BjQzBtjyZ2jXOXUwmU47H35XCO4vIsAJIvvqXpMDt7TkoWMyLkX9TxJG78wvCdsEWA0e7exxDmE61U= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kX8t1rBeJeNAtM0pTlHhHcHABKN34ZDg0Q7NaaQOMCeZiQhDfnDSsXfs0At92dOF2X/ENtfJzZcvZthTYsb1T7OcpP0YIizTIdZ9rhYJAG8ygXn0zW0EXqofg5xTgQ/9R2BS8hC8f8ODoKFRxWakFMT7UXCI5aopdoMlVZp58/k=; Message-ID: <757273.75752.qm@web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: wIo88hcVM1mGMzUzXAiEUklaJA6zz8_gNGc3gJKCaDIGPUqfkbck.Q5RfFT_9YDvLKLcueAqZYdkPbWbjq_2aHpIzOcod7WvduwO5HJ6rqyNOxgTrugf4e_QbQbeKngE2U4mxCLs4KJlKINzZQXbuqayE_Uou_WAIKhfKgUd1FaB56HvQDPsOvClmx6Jg4bOfc4BHQ5z4X3fOVwEQOdILoeH13XOHIORNjV68F7.vzdg.y_jlD5LqUrxsMuHUpx9m1efK1szNAVStDUBGqz9ssAu4S_yPdvS62AMy1TDGDLMmbhtvyieIyE1eqqa_BaMDX2t Received: from [81.131.8.179] by web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:17 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:17 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m222.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405b4b83cad63547 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Stefan, I am not sure about your aluminium foil idea. I worry that this= will form a lossy capacitor because the dielectric a think film of ali ox= ide will break down in places at this voltage and also there is the inknow= n of the contact with the ground. I would rather use some UR67 it can be= a length unsuitable for real feeder work (I uses coax as a capacitor in= an HV pulse generator many years ago and though the spec is 6kV it certai= nly survived 15kV with no burns though the dielectric. Rik and I discussed= this format at length many years ago for 136kHz but I dont think either= of us did any tests. I would suggest an HV capacitor might be the alternative old TV EHT type?? Actually grounding the remote ends is a lot easier and a lot less to carry= if you are operating "portable" Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:36 > Rik, Alan,=20 > =20 > I think we think about the same: using the inv-L as a > vertical loop by using the ground.=20 > =20 > Wouldn't it be easier to use a aluminium foil to get proper > C (to ground), especially when talking about high voltages > and high currents? Just covered with some soil and easy to > adjust/modify... > =20 > Stefan >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von Rik Strobbe > Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 00:12 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 > Pete, > =20 > what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna > base to ground ? > It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to > 100 and at the same time transform the high loss resistance > (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value. > Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, > so power should be more modest than 780 Watt. > A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or > similiar coax cable that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m > you would 10 to 100m cable. > =20 > 73, Rik > =20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 > Yep Rik > =20 > So how do I load it? > =20 > I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the > coil so it would act like a one bar electric fire while the > wire held out before melting.=20 > =20 > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and > about 100 Watts of audio to try out.=20 > =20 > I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of > the RSGB designs in the LF Handbook. > =20 > I want to use an air core transformer if at all > possible....... there is a lot of pontificating on this > reflector about this subject but I am looking for a > practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, > ideas-wise.=20 >=20 > If I can load it with any of the power levels above there > are LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX test like > G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km > away.=20 > =20 > May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule > fraction of a wave length, in the conventional way is not > the answer. > =20 > So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 From: Rik Strobbe > =A0=A0=A0 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > > =A0=A0=A0 Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 Pete, > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > =A0=A0=A0 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance > of 1345 Ohm. > =A0=A0=A0 So even if the coil doen't get hot by > the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power. > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > =A0=A0=A0 73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > ________________________________ >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > =A0=A0=A0 Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 > 19:19 > =A0=A0=A0 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > =A0=A0=A0 Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > Hi Group > =20 > Using software to calculate what I would need to load my > inv "L"=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio > amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored > former is 1400 turns,=20 > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by > about 60kVolts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty > hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > =20 > =20 > =A0=20 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 From: James Cowburn > =A0=A0=A0 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > =A0=A0=A0 Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 All we need is a wire strung between K2 > and Everest summits and fed from > =A0=A0=A0 base camp below? > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 -----Original Message----- > =A0=A0=A0 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > ] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > =A0=A0=A0 Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > =A0=A0=A0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 No license is required in the US below > 9kHz. > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 I agree with Mal its very difficult to > radiate a signal on 137kHz, let > =A0=A0=A0 alone 9kHz! > =A0=A0=A0 --=20 > =A0=A0=A0 73 Warren K2ORS > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN > MELIA > > > =A0=A0=A0 wrote: > =A0=A0=A0 > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it > is not allowed. You probably need to > =A0=A0=A0 contact Andy G4JNT for details he did > approach the regulator at one time > =A0=A0=A0 maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing > his tests the answer as I remember > =A0=A0=A0 was:- > =A0=A0=A0 > Frequencies below 10kHz are not > allocated by International Treaty but we > =A0=A0=A0 control all frequencies between DC and > gamma rays, and no we will not be > =A0=A0=A0 issuing any licences for that region. > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > I believe that was the > RadioCommunications Agency things may be different > =A0=A0=A0 now with Ofcomm. The best person to know > whether an approach would be > =A0=A0=A0 worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who > nursed the 500k stuff through. > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > Alan G3NYK > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, > Stefan_Sch=E4fer > =A0=A0=A0 > > wrote: > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > =A0=A0=A0 >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0 >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> Date: Monday, 22 February, > 2010, 11:32 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Ok Roger, > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> And do you know if f<9kHz is > free for other countries in > =A0=A0=A0 >> europe as > =A0=A0=A0 >> well? What about the UK? > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> If such a grounded dipole is > best, than it is easy to build > =A0=A0=A0 >> a big > =A0=A0=A0 >> antenna without the problems we > have on LF (getting the > =A0=A0=A0 >> wire high above > =A0=A0=A0 >> ground). So we also could try > big/long antennas. Waht do > =A0=A0=A0 >> you mean with > =A0=A0=A0 >> amateur levels? Power range is > clear, something arround > =A0=A0=A0 >> 500W+-6dB. But > =A0=A0=A0 >> the antenna? Sure, if you think > about building an antenna > =A0=A0=A0 >> in the > =A0=A0=A0 >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very > effective but what about > =A0=A0=A0 >> 2x500m in a > =A0=A0=A0 >> forrest, perhaps with the > loading coils (which will be on a > =A0=A0=A0 >> ferrite > =A0=A0=A0 >> toroid i think) mounted 300m > apart from the center? That > =A0=A0=A0 >> could be > =A0=A0=A0 >> interesting and easy to try. No > tower, no earth radials, > =A0=A0=A0 >> just 2 wires > =A0=A0=A0 >> hung up on some trees and > measured the impedance at the > =A0=A0=A0 >> feed point, > =A0=A0=A0 >> that would be a first step. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> This antenna will still be bad > but what we are doing -on LF > =A0=A0=A0 >> it is the > =A0=A0=A0 >> same- is beeing fascinated to > reach a good distance and > =A0=A0=A0 >> make some > =A0=A0=A0 >> contacts at very low > frequencies, although it would be much > =A0=A0=A0 >> easier on > =A0=A0=A0 >> 40/80m... > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> And so, if one would reach 50km > with such a short dipole, > =A0=A0=A0 >> the > =A0=A0=A0 >> fascination would be enormous, > isn't it? ;-) > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried > such experiments as well? > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> With the ground wave, one could > reach the whole europe, i > =A0=A0=A0 >> expect. But > =A0=A0=A0 >> that are dreams... > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Stefan/DK7FC > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb > Roger Lapthorn: > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0At this > frequency, widely spaced, grounded > =A0=A0=A0 >> electrode pairs are > =A0=A0=A0 >> probably the best > "antenna".=A0 There are > =A0=A0=A0 >> references to how these work > in > =A0=A0=A0 >> the literature (for example > NATO AGAARD papers from the > =A0=A0=A0 >> 1960s, > =A0=A0=A0 >> available on the internet I > believe) and on one of the > =A0=A0=A0 >> German ham sites > =A0=A0=A0 >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0 . > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0Don't expect > great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair > =A0=A0=A0 >> aim with modern > =A0=A0=A0 >> signal processing technology > and reasonable (amateur > =A0=A0=A0 >> levels) available > =A0=A0=A0 >> power. Project Sanguine > achieved worldwide coverage to > =A0=A0=A0 >> submarines at > =A0=A0=A0 >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used > enormous power and antennas > =A0=A0=A0 >> stretching for > =A0=A0=A0 >> 100s of kms. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A073s > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0Roger G3XBM > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A02010/2/22 > Stefan Sch=E4fer > =A0=A0=A0 >> > > > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0Hello Horst, > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> That sounds really nice. If it > would be easy to find some > =A0=A0=A0 >> motivated OMs > =A0=A0=A0 >> in the near field (31km) ;-), > that would be an interesting > =A0=A0=A0 >> field to > =A0=A0=A0 >> test. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Yesterday i have thought about > possible antenna > =A0=A0=A0 >> configurations for that > =A0=A0=A0 >> range and got the idea that one > could use a forrest as an > =A0=A0=A0 >> antenna > =A0=A0=A0 >> tower. There, you could hang up > 100s meters of wire, in > =A0=A0=A0 >> series and in > =A0=A0=A0 >> parallel. You do not need to > have that area beside your > =A0=A0=A0 >> house. Nobody > =A0=A0=A0 >> will see the wire and nobody > will care about it. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Since summer 2007 i have a > horizontal loop antenna mounted > =A0=A0=A0 >> in some > =A0=A0=A0 >> trees on my hill with excellent > results on all HF bands and > =A0=A0=A0 >> also 160m. > =A0=A0=A0 >> The loop has 130m and is > mounted up to 12m above ground. > =A0=A0=A0 >> Perfect > =A0=A0=A0 >> matching from 160m to 10m with > my symmetric tuner. I even > =A0=A0=A0 >> tried > =A0=A0=A0 >> matching on 2200m without a > problem but with bad ODX > =A0=A0=A0 >> results, of > =A0=A0=A0 >> course. But if one would try 2x > 10*100m on VLF, the ODX > =A0=A0=A0 >> would be > =A0=A0=A0 >> interesting... > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS > and thus a little far i > =A0=A0=A0 >> think ;-) > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> What is your RX antenna and > have you already catched some > =A0=A0=A0 >> commercial > =A0=A0=A0 >> VLF stations in that range? Are > there some? > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> 73, Stefan > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> PS: One can be sure that there > will never be SSB operation > =A0=A0=A0 >> ;-) > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > ________________________________ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0 =A0=A0=A0An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing > on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Hallo Stefan, > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> there was a notice in > Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in > =A0=A0=A0 >> DL the range > =A0=A0=A0 >> <9kHz is free. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> I could not believe that so I > asked the BNetzA and after a > =A0=A0=A0 >> while I got > =A0=A0=A0 >> a letter which confirmed that. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> So there nothing you've got to > do for getting a > =A0=A0=A0 >> licence. You do not > =A0=A0=A0 >> need one. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> There is no limitation of > technical parameters like > =A0=A0=A0 >> bandwith or power. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Hard to believe in german, but > obviously true. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Horst > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > ___________________________________________________________ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber > 1000,- =BF sparen! > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0 =A0=A0=A0http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> -- > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0http://www.g3xbm.co.uk =20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> G3XBM=A0 =A0 GQRP > 1678=A0 =A0 =A0 ISWL > =A0=A0=A0 >> G11088 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> -- > =A0=A0=A0 >> ---------------------------- > =A0=A0=A0 >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > =A0=A0=A0 >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der > Universit=E4t > =A0=A0=A0 >> Heidelberg > =A0=A0=A0 >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > =A0=A0=A0 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > =A0=A0=A0 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20