Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t4Q0SZuF014216 for ; Tue, 26 May 2015 02:28:35 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Yx2h6-0001dx-RH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 May 2015 01:26:08 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Yx2h6-0001do-GZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 May 2015 01:26:08 +0100 Received: from omr-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.80]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Yx2h4-0007RT-CQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 May 2015 01:26:07 +0100 Received: from mtaout-aai02.mx.aol.com (mtaout-aai02.mx.aol.com [172.27.2.98]) by omr-m06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id A7447700000A9 for ; Mon, 25 May 2015 20:26:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from White (ipb21bee4a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [178.27.238.74]) by mtaout-aai02.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 0A85038000084 for ; Mon, 25 May 2015 20:26:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <742C1F58E9DB405D9BC9B7E28E1AD112@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <5561CEB5.3060506@charter.net>, <5561ECC1.8030301@kpnmail.nl> <556222D3.11110.8F3A44@roelof.ndb.demon.nl> <55623C9A.4060107@charter.net> <000e01d096dd$ac91f5d0$6401a8c0@JAYDELL> <556311FA.7090205@posteo.de> <55636912.1010105@no3m.net> <55636E96.3040506@posteo.de> <55638C47.1090402@freenet.de> <5563AD3E.2090204@posteo.de> Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 02:26:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1432599964; bh=I4sjCiAb3PY5kYFYFEtFlFMicAvikvmUYFe9Hup7bLk=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=DqeAXaqObgv8A8UQxk4eK2/B/5S/E/eiLYxGJ//tSPzYVUhM/morm2mPmpklJcegv +nqd9k6loUgHZ8YJSI4YdvNlcwzyW/O655u44uW06CcrcXZodl2xghy02mjYI9IOkH ZqUJ18hzqRkcP0xKqJl9rOZJ1xofr0RLgpNHZJ5o= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b02625563bd9b3849 X-AOL-IP: 178.27.238.74 X-Scan-Signature: e5f33499c82e559d1cf2f25253946608 Subject: Re: LF: 630M WSPR T/A - WSPR-15? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01D0975B.4FB03330" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3277 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01D0975B.4FB03330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable correction: dial 474.2 kHz (I'll never get this right...)=20 From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 2:19 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: 630M WSPR T/A - WSPR-15? Wolf, as far as I know the only way to separate them in the database = seems to be sorting by frequency (which is not very useful otherwise). = There is a peculiarity in that the hh:15 and hh:45 timestamps in the = database seem to be "rectified" to even minutes (hh:16 and hh:46) at = midnight UT (just happened to G4JNT entries).=20 Stefan, I'm not sure about not using -15 on MF. Even though fading is = faster and deeper, the WSPR decoder seems to cope well with it. After = all WSPR-2 is useful on HF where fading happens in seconds. The = spectrogram of Andy's transmission last night sometimes showed two deep = fades in one sequence, but it was decoded ok. It has been argued that a = very short and strong maximum might be utilized by -2 and not by -15, = and maybe there's not all of the theoretical 9 dB gain, but I reckon on = average it's not much less. Laurence yes your frequencies are correct, dial 475.2 kHz, RF: 475.6 - = 475.8 WSPR-2, 475.8 - 475.825 WSPR-15. I wonder if it is possible to run two instances of WSPRX side by side on = the same machine, one for -2 and one for -15? Or would they crash one = another? 73, Markus From: DK7FC=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 1:16 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: 630M WSPR T/A Am 25.05.2015 22:55, schrieb wolf_dl4yhf:=20 p.s. is there a possibility to filter / display only WSPR-15 decodes = from the database, and how widespread is the use of that mode ? ...there have been a few MF TA tests in WSPR-15 in the early 630m days, = showing that this mode is to slow for the path on that band. These tests = have not been very extended though. But most likely there is not a = 'gain' of 9 dB over WSPR-2. I would assume that successful detections = are even less likely in that mode over the pond. 73, Stefan ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01D0975B.4FB03330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
correction: dial 474.2 kHz (I'll never = get this=20 right...) 

Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 2:19 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: 630M WSPR T/A - WSPR-15?

Wolf, as far as I know the only way to = separate=20 them in the database seems to be sorting by frequency (which is not = very=20 useful otherwise). There is a peculiarity in that the hh:15 and = hh:45=20 timestamps in the database seem to be "rectified" to even minutes (hh:16 = and=20 hh:46) at midnight UT (just happened to G4JNT = entries). 
 
Stefan, I'm not sure about = not using -15=20 on MF. Even though fading is faster and deeper, the WSPR decoder seems = to cope=20 well with it. After all WSPR-2 is useful on HF where fading happens in = seconds.=20 The spectrogram of Andy's transmission last night sometimes showed = two deep=20 fades in one sequence, but it was decoded ok. It has been = argued that=20 a very short and strong maximum might be utilized by -2 and not by = -15, and=20 maybe there's not all of the theoretical 9 dB gain, but I reckon on = average it's=20 not much less.
 
Laurence yes your frequencies are = correct, dial=20 475.2 kHz, RF: 475.6 - 475.8 WSPR-2, 475.8 - 475.825 = WSPR-15.
 
I wonder if it is possible to run two = instances of=20 WSPRX side by side on the same machine, one for -2 and one for -15? Or = would=20 they crash one another?
 
73, Markus
 
 

 
From: DK7FC
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: LF: 630M WSPR T/A

Am=20 25.05.2015 22:55, schrieb wolf_dl4yhf:=20
p.s. is = there a=20 possibility to filter / display only WSPR-15 decodes from the = database, and=20 how widespread is the use of that mode ?

...there = have been=20 a few MF TA tests in WSPR-15 in the early 630m days, showing that this = mode is=20 to slow for the path on that band. These tests have not been very = extended=20 though. But most likely there is not a 'gain' of 9 dB over WSPR-2. I = would=20 assume that successful detections are even less likely in that mode over = the=20 pond.

73, Stefan
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