Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK, HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id sBF0aMfr015509 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 01:36:23 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Y0JZ2-0001si-09 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:31:04 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Y0JZ1-0001sZ-KJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:31:03 +0000 Received: from rgout06.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk ([65.20.0.183]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Y0JYz-0007iG-Jc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:31:02 +0000 X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A090204.548E2BC4.00BD,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=39/50,refid=2.7.2:2014.12.12.125720:17:39.532,ip=81.155.177.209,rules=__HAS_MSGID, __SANE_MSGID, MSGID_32HEX_LC, INVALID_MSGID_NO_FQDN, __MSGID_32HEX, __HAS_FROM, __PHISH_FROM2, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL_FROM, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY, __CTYPE_MULTIPART, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __ANY_URI, __FRAUD_BODY_WEBMAIL, __URI_NO_WWW, __URI_NO_PATH, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE, SUPERLONG_LINE, __HAS_HTML, HTML_NO_HTTP, BODY_SIZE_10000_PLUS, BODYTEXTH_SIZE_10000_LESS, __MIME_HTML, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML, __STYLE_RATWARE_NEG, RDNS_GENERIC_POOLED, __URI_NS, SXL_IP_DYNAMIC[209.177.155.81.fur], RDNS_SUSP_GENERIC, __PHISH_FROM, __OUTLOOK_MUA, RDNS_SUSP, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Received: from gnat (81.155.177.209) by rgout06.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (8.6.122.06) (authenticated as alan.melia@btinternet.com) id 548AEC0D00468277 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:31:00 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1418603461; bh=z8gbbLXPQSqCl7BQ/SILJI80MYQHfCeKsGpToEMdd1w=; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:X-Mailer; b=cVaFGyKe8hgk86YInuWM3+AZ2+6d8uZzjtgTVgmKy6hCFioa6l0ndWxVfhrFRzU9opGoNmr/5rUu5xkS7wIpIsYjQTbX21QbPikgnix0mOtCPPGbGL0AgHCxvq+3Xd7WnhHNbI/jWMwEXCyBZAm+tGdld6rr2suUyeGQ9c2SI0c= Message-ID: <6D8A38DE6FAB43E3874357F730BA623F@gnat> From: "Alan Melia" To: References: ,<144CC10B16EC4E83BF5157AAE80406F3@gnat> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:30:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Scan-Signature: b64e297c4577ad617411a4f8f6174ca7 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Noisy Earth mat...? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01D017FE.650B5D40" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1497 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01D017FE.650B5D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Laurence I was musing that the moving auroral fields would induce = circulating currents in the closed loops of the mesh ......(that is = after a small tot of Asbach in my bedtime hot chocky !!) and maybe = coupling the noise into the loop. Can you change the loop plane out of = the vertical ?? No,No I'd better go to bed before I have a really silly idea :-)) cheers Alan ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Laurence KL7 L=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:19 AM Subject: RE: LF: Re: Noisy Earth mat...? Alan thanks - Im thinking cos the noise is "Whitish" is nature that it = could be high level iono - certainly I cant finger any of the local QRM = sources or attach it back to the house here either - but the change has = been dramatic - Im going to turn the loop (now theres an idea!) and see = what the deltas are into a W@G SPM30 and see ifs coming in from a = azimuth source or if it stays flatish perhaps I should as you say look = up - the K is elevated here at the moment too -=20 =20 Yep we are frozen but not to any great depth yet... maybe 10 cms =20 thanks Laurence =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: alan.melia@btinternet.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:11:33 +0000 Subject: LF: Re: Noisy Earth mat...? Hi Laurence.....a bit odd ?? I presume your ground is frozen hard now = so winter ground loss. Just a silly thought I wonder because a lot of = your noise is from 30 to 50km if the mat is reflecting noise into your = loop that would in another position be absorbed in the ground ?? Then = again I am used to fence wire being steel or maybe coated iron = .....magnetic conversion rather than rectification, (never quite = understood how Marconi's wire detector worked) ?? ;-)) or is your = neighbour using it as one electrode of his Christmas lights ? Best Wishes for the holiday Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Laurence KL7 L=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2014 11:53 PM Subject: LF: Noisy Earth mat...? It so happens my 10ft diameter multi turn LF loop is now plonked in = the centre of an extensive earth mat consisting of bonded welded fence = wire, and about 100 x 100ft radials, numerous Earth rods etc part of the = MF tx system - Cant detect any diode type effects from the mat.... =20 Ive noticed since the loop has been surrounded by this "mat" the = induced noise into the loop has increased and the loop effectiveness at = 137kHz has been severely compromised (about 5dB on Transpolar paths = over an optimized positional L400B) - the mat and the loop are above = 2.5 metres apart and not electrically connected (galvanically isolated) = with common mode chokes on the 400 coax - there is no local coupling = from the MF Marconi ie I can short it to ground or bring it down and the = background noise (somewhat White in nature around -95dBm) doesn't = change.... =20 So I just wondered if I should move my loop to a new Green field = location away from the radial mat etc - anyone else noticed similar?? = Any suggestions? =20 Thanks Laurence KL7L et al ps over the pole is poor this evening so far with a little = spreading... ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01D017FE.650B5D40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Laurence I was musing that the = moving auroral=20 fields would induce circulating currents in the closed loops of the mesh = ......(that is after a small tot of Asbach in my bedtime hot chocky !!) = and=20 maybe coupling the noise into the loop. Can you change the loop plane = out of the=20 vertical ??
 
No,No I'd better go to bed before I = have a really=20 silly idea  :-))
 
cheers
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Laurence KL7 L =
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 = 12:19=20 AM
Subject: RE: LF: Re: Noisy = Earth=20 mat...?

Alan thanks - Im thinking cos the noise is = "Whitish" is=20 nature that it could be high level iono - certainly I cant finger = any of=20 the local QRM sources or attach it back to the house = here either -=20 but the change has been dramatic - Im going to turn the loop = (now=20 theres an idea!) and see what the deltas are into a W@G SPM30 and see ifs coming in from a azimuth = source or=20 if it stays flatish perhaps I should as you say look up - the K = is=20 elevated here at the moment too - 
 
Yep we are frozen = but not=20 to any great depth yet... maybe 10=20 cms
 
thanks
Laurence
 
From: alan.melia@btinternet.com
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date:=20 Mon, 15 Dec 2014 00:11:33 +0000
Subject: LF: Re: Noisy Earth=20 mat...?

Hi Laurence.....a bit odd ?? I = presume your=20 ground is frozen hard now so winter ground loss. Just a silly thought = I wonder=20 because a lot of your noise is from 30 to 50km if the mat is = reflecting noise=20 into your loop that would in another position be absorbed in the = ground ??=20 Then again I am used to fence wire being steel or maybe coated iron=20 .....magnetic conversion rather than rectification, (never quite = understood=20 how Marconi's wire detector worked) ?? ;-)) or is your neighbour = using it=20 as one electrode of his Christmas lights ?
 
Best Wishes for the = holiday
Alan
G3NYK
 
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 Laurence KL7 L
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent:=20 Sunday, December 14, 2014 11:53 PM Subject:=20 LF: Noisy Earth mat...?

It so happens my 10ft diameter multi turn LF = loop is now=20 plonked in the centre of an extensive earth mat consisting of = bonded=20 welded fence wire, and about 100 x 100ft radials, numerous = Earth=20 rods etc part of the MF tx system - Cant detect any diode type = effects from=20 the mat....
 
Ive noticed since the loop has been = surrounded by=20 this "mat" the induced noise into the loop has increased = and the=20 loop effectiveness at 137kHz  has been severely = compromised =20 (about 5dB on Transpolar paths over an optimized positional = L400B)  -=20 the mat and the loop are above 2.5 metres apart  and not = electrically=20 connected (galvanically isolated) with common mode chokes on the 400 = coax -  there is no local coupling from the MF Marconi ie = I can=20 short it to ground or bring it down and the background noise = (somewhat White=20 in nature around -95dBm) doesn't change....
 
So I just = wondered=20 if I should move my loop to a new Green field location away from the = radial=20 mat etc - anyone else noticed similar?? Any=20 suggestions?
 
Thanks
Laurence KL7L et al
ps over = the pole=20 is poor this evening so far with a little=20 = spreading...
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