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Message-ID: <6C3CB471FC6B45389AB252BB9F9CAB98@AGB>
From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
References: <004301cc68dc$3ee79540$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><4EEE84D5F0DF43BE878C6B3E1E455554@AGB><005301cc68de$4c864c80$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><CAJStiw5hLOsng48zySb1e+Gaqnr+1ce3w2n=SZaANKcOco-usw@mail.gmail.com><3C0C61D0515A436CB88A0DB5AFDD9CA9@AGB><CAJStiw4EZoiYXVdVgPn3J=9vxQ2fcff-uXY48yAp6sagiEhL2g@mail.gmail.com><001101cc68e5$974df590$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><CAJStiw7NXwN6aE01_GcrQNHQ9MjxiEjB49FAx6_dHJQuBWQzYA@mail.gmail.com><CAJStiw7V2KaPY8FPJN-GzqZOwOLttkqvcK1nVzA+sLRsP7OefA@mail.gmail.com><BLU153-W61ECB164E1268FA075A789CF190@phx.gbl><alpine.WNT.2.00.1109012106370.3960@opc1><BLU153-W63859591253C0DB6608F36CF190@phx.gbl><BLU153-W29DE64941B727E67CAD651CF190@phx.gbl><20110902053904.477d773c@svr1> <CAJStiw4odA2pu4cLTiTRNB0kzyTFzMV-ffAcU-+tuxBVLjgLvA@mail.gmail.com>,<AFAA55BC71D94EE2B4DD745B1D77F1F6@AGB> <BLU153-W1ABB864996F6C7383D6EECF180@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BLU153-W1ABB864996F6C7383D6EECF180@phx.gbl>
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 23:39:54 +0100
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Subject: Re: LF: ros
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FB Laurence, so far so good then ! , looks like your 14 meg =
monitor is doing well !
Gus was wondering about 136 Khz ? could be a possibility ?
73 -G..=20
From: Laurence KL7UK=20
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 8:57 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Subject: RE: LF: ros
Thanks Graham - an interesting mode...!
And appreciate the signals. The PC didn't misbehave overnight.
Laurence KL7UK/AM Minneapolis enroute Anchorage
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:08:26 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: ros
That's an unfortunate start to the winter !
The MF mode has had very little usage compared to the HF , so its =
quite possible some bug's lurk within=20
as with the HF side, operation is unique , however all be it =
functional , its worth noting , the whole mode/project is the=20
some work of one person ..=20
It is firstly a qso mode , so as noticed the beacon side tends =
to favour users of the channel ,=20
As noted by Gary , there was a beacon-timer freeze problem with the =
previous issue
Programme freeze , was that PC lock , or just ROS ? not experienced =
any freeze problems for some time now =20
Psk-Reporter can offer some history data from the stats page, =
unique band spots for 136/500
can be obtained by setting the Band =3D unknown. but to date =
there is no searchable data base=20
for the ros system.. ( A stored history of the received text would =
be useful....but not avilable)
Static problem's , a bit subjective may be ? but if the same =
occurs in the near future , an audio recording would be useful for =
evaluation ,
The s/n indication is a average value of the received frame , =
with the 'Margin' being the amount of signal over the 'limit of =
resolution'
so at the lower levels its quite possible a % of the data was =
under the threshold , low level decodes are rarely 100% crc , but =
it is a=20
live 'rtty' mode, structured for data rate V s/n , at levels of =
-30 > -33dB average it is predictable there will be a level of =
corruption ?
If anyone has any requests / observations , > nietoros@hotmail.com;=20
Tnx all - G..=20
From: Gary - G4WGT=20
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:22 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Subject: Re: LF: ros
John & All,=20
Apparently the latest ROS version v6.6.9 has been changed to prevent =
beacon mode stopping when other signals encountered.
73, Gary - G4WGT.
On 2 September 2011 06:39, John GM4SLV <gm4slv@sighthound.demon.co.uk> =
wrote:
On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 15:45:19 -0800
Laurence KL7UK <hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> KL7UK now ROS 500kHz for the night -
>
>
Laurence, LF,
ROS is NOT the mode for this sort of test!
I came to the shack at 05:15 UTC to find the regular beaconing had
stopped running. Apparently if a signal is received the software stops
any beacon (to avoid causing QRM) and in this instance it didn't =
restart
the beacon timer afterwards - therefore my log shows that at 23:34 UTC
there was a (not correctly decoded) RX frame, and after that no =
further
beacons were sent.
Sorry.
WSPR would seem to be the mode for finding an opening, not ROS,
I won't be using it again in anger. I find as a QSO mode it is very
ponderous, which I can accept for the ability to resolve signals deep
in the noise, inaudible even, but it didn't seem to perform very well =
in
the presence of lightning QRN - requiring signals to be audible before
it decoded them.
On top of that I find the actual software to be very difficult to
drive. As Mal pointed out, the continuous appearance if spots &
information of activity on every other band is very annoying, and
seemingly can't be turned off. The Beacon functionality is seriously
flawed for the use we put it to. The secret nature of the modem means
no one else can integrate ROS into existing (more user friendly)
software (fldigi, multipsk etc).
The PSKreporter spot-collecting website, while a laudable project, is
no way as usable as the WSPRNet online database, which makes finding
and tabulating reception reports more difficult.
I'll stick with WSPR for beaconing, which is what it was intended for,
and look into other MFSK modes for QSOs.
Anyone interested in some MFSK-4 tests over the weekend?
Cheers,
John
GM4SLV
------=_NextPart_000_01C6_01CC6A92.C813C4D0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<STYLE><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
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body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Tahoma
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<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.19120"></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP: =
15px"=20
id=3DMailContainerBody class=3Dhmmessage leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0=20
CanvasTabStop=3D"true" name=3D"Compose message area">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>FB Laurence, so far so =
good then !=20
, looks like your 14 meg monitor is =20
doing well !</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Gus was wondering about =
136=20
Khz ? could be a possibility =
?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>73 -G.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3D"mailto:hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com CTRL + Click to =
follow link"=20
href=3D"mailto:hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com">Laurence KL7UK</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 02, 2011 8:57 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org CTRL + Click to follow =
link"=20
href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> RE: LF: ros</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>Thanks Graham - an interesting mode...!<BR>And appreciate =
the=20
signals. The PC didn't misbehave overnight.<BR><BR><BR>Laurence KL7UK/AM =
Minneapolis enroute Anchorage<BR><BR><BR>
<HR>
From: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk">g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk</A><BR>To=
: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
</A><BR>Date:=20
Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:08:26 +0100<BR>Subject: Re: LF: ros<BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>That's an unfortunate start to =
the =20
winter !</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>The MF mode has had =
very =20
little usage compared to the HF , so its quite=20
possible some bug's lurk within </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>as with the HF side,=20
operation is unique , however all be it=20
functional , its worth noting , the =20
whole mode/project is the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>some work of one person ..=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>It is firstly a =
qso mode ,=20
so as noticed the beacon side =
tends =20
to favour users of the channel , </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT><FONT size=3D2 =
face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>As noted by Gary , there =
was a=20
beacon-timer freeze problem with the previous =20
issue</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Programme freeze , was that =
PC=20
lock , or just ROS ? not experienced any =
freeze =20
problems for some time now =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Psk-Reporter can offer =
some =20
history data from the stats page, unique band =20
spots for 136/500</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>can be obtained by =
setting =20
the Band =3D unknown. but to date there is =
no=20
searchable data base </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>for the ros system.. ( =
A stored=20
history of the received text would be =20
useful....but not avilable)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Static problem's , a bit =
subjective may=20
be ? but if the same occurs in the =
near =20
future , an audio recording would be useful for =20
evaluation ,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>The s/n indication is =
a=20
average value of the received frame , with =
the =20
'Margin' being the amount of signal over =
the =20
'limit of resolution'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>so at the lower =
levels its =20
quite possible a % of the data was under =
the =20
threshold , low level decodes are rarely 100% =
crc ,=20
but it is a </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>live 'rtty' mode, =
structured =20
for data rate V s/n , at levels of -30 =
> -33dB=20
average it is predictable there will be a level =
of =20
corruption ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>If anyone has any requests /=20
observations , > <A=20
href=3D"mailto:nietoros@hotmail.com">nietoros@hotmail.com</A>; =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Tnx all - G.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3D"mailto:g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk CTRL + Click to follow link"=20
href=3D"mailto:g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk">Gary - G4WGT</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 02, 2011 10:22 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org CTRL + Click to follow =
link"=20
href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: LF: ros</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>John & All,=20
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Apparently the latest ROS version v6.6.9 has been changed to =
prevent beacon=20
mode stopping when other signals encountered.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>73, Gary - G4WGT.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=3Decxgmail_quote>On 2 September 2011 06:39, John GM4SLV <SPAN =
dir=3Dltr><<A=20
title=3D"mailto:gm4slv@sighthound.demon.co.uk CTRL + Click to follow =
link"=20
href=3D"mailto:gm4slv@sighthound.demon.co.uk">gm4slv@sighthound.demon.co.=
uk</A>></SPAN>=20
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"=20
class=3Decxgmail_quote>
<DIV class=3Decxim>On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 15:45:19 -0800<BR>Laurence KL7UK =
<<A=20
title=3D"mailto:hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com CTRL + Click to =
follow link"=20
=
href=3D"mailto:hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com">hellozerohellozero@hotmail=
.com</A>>=20
wrote:<BR><BR>><BR>> KL7UK now ROS 500kHz for the night=20
-<BR>><BR>><BR><BR></DIV>Laurence, LF,<BR><BR>ROS is NOT the =
mode for=20
this sort of test!<BR><BR>I came to the shack at 05:15 UTC to find the =
regular=20
beaconing had<BR>stopped running. Apparently if a signal is received =
the=20
software stops<BR>any beacon (to avoid causing QRM) and in this =
instance it=20
didn't restart<BR>the beacon timer afterwards - therefore my log shows =
that at=20
23:34 UTC<BR>there was a (not correctly decoded) RX frame, and after =
that no=20
further<BR>beacons were sent.<BR><BR>Sorry.<BR><BR>WSPR would seem to =
be the=20
mode for finding an opening, not ROS,<BR><BR>I won't be using it again =
in=20
anger. I find as a QSO mode it is very<BR>ponderous, which I can =
accept for=20
the ability to resolve signals deep<BR>in the noise, inaudible even, =
but it=20
didn't seem to perform very well in<BR>the presence of lightning QRN - =
requiring signals to be audible before<BR>it decoded them.<BR><BR>On =
top of=20
that I find the actual software to be very difficult to<BR>drive. As =
Mal=20
pointed out, the continuous appearance if spots &<BR>information =
of=20
activity on every other band is very annoying, and<BR>seemingly can't =
be=20
turned off. The Beacon functionality is seriously<BR>flawed for the =
use we put=20
it to. The secret nature of the modem means<BR>no one else can =
integrate ROS=20
into existing (more user friendly)<BR>software (fldigi, multipsk=20
etc).<BR><BR>The PSKreporter spot-collecting website, while a laudable =
project, is<BR>no way as usable as the WSPRNet online database, which =
makes=20
finding<BR>and tabulating reception reports more =
difficult.<BR><BR>I'll stick=20
with WSPR for beaconing, which is what it was intended for,<BR>and =
look into=20
other MFSK modes for QSOs.<BR><BR>Anyone interested in some MFSK-4 =
tests over=20
the=20
weekend?<BR><BR><BR> Cheers,<BR><BR>John<BR>GM4SLV<BR><BR></BLOCKQUO=
TE></DIV><BR></DIV><BR><BR></DIV>
<br>=
<br>=
</BODY></HTML>
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