Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 26B46380000C1; Sat, 3 Sep 2011 18:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Qzysd-0005Uf-3U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:40:03 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Qzysc-0005UW-AT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:40:02 +0100 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.151] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Qzysa-0000ch-Kx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:40:02 +0100 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3533.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 0977C1C00096 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 00:39:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3533.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F03C71C00098 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 00:39:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from AGB (unknown [2.26.17.21]) by mwinf3533.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 731541C00096 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 00:39:54 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20110903223954471.731541C00096@mwinf3533.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <6C3CB471FC6B45389AB252BB9F9CAB98@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <004301cc68dc$3ee79540$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><4EEE84D5F0DF43BE878C6B3E1E455554@AGB><005301cc68de$4c864c80$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><3C0C61D0515A436CB88A0DB5AFDD9CA9@AGB><001101cc68e5$974df590$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><20110902053904.477d773c@svr1> , In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 23:39:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 110903-1, 03/09/2011), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP=0.234 Subject: Re: LF: ros Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01C6_01CC6A92.C813C4D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:462191232:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904e62ad1b660f X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01C6_01CC6A92.C813C4D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FB Laurence, so far so good then ! , looks like your 14 meg = monitor is doing well ! Gus was wondering about 136 Khz ? could be a possibility ? 73 -G..=20 From: Laurence KL7UK=20 Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 8:57 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: ros Thanks Graham - an interesting mode...! And appreciate the signals. The PC didn't misbehave overnight. Laurence KL7UK/AM Minneapolis enroute Anchorage -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:08:26 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: ros That's an unfortunate start to the winter ! The MF mode has had very little usage compared to the HF , so its = quite possible some bug's lurk within=20 as with the HF side, operation is unique , however all be it = functional , its worth noting , the whole mode/project is the=20 some work of one person ..=20 It is firstly a qso mode , so as noticed the beacon side tends = to favour users of the channel ,=20 As noted by Gary , there was a beacon-timer freeze problem with the = previous issue Programme freeze , was that PC lock , or just ROS ? not experienced = any freeze problems for some time now =20 Psk-Reporter can offer some history data from the stats page, = unique band spots for 136/500 can be obtained by setting the Band =3D unknown. but to date = there is no searchable data base=20 for the ros system.. ( A stored history of the received text would = be useful....but not avilable) Static problem's , a bit subjective may be ? but if the same = occurs in the near future , an audio recording would be useful for = evaluation , The s/n indication is a average value of the received frame , = with the 'Margin' being the amount of signal over the 'limit of = resolution' so at the lower levels its quite possible a % of the data was = under the threshold , low level decodes are rarely 100% crc , but = it is a=20 live 'rtty' mode, structured for data rate V s/n , at levels of = -30 > -33dB average it is predictable there will be a level of = corruption ? If anyone has any requests / observations , > nietoros@hotmail.com;=20 Tnx all - G..=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:22 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: ros John & All,=20 Apparently the latest ROS version v6.6.9 has been changed to prevent = beacon mode stopping when other signals encountered. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 2 September 2011 06:39, John GM4SLV = wrote: On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 15:45:19 -0800 Laurence KL7UK wrote: > > KL7UK now ROS 500kHz for the night - > > Laurence, LF, ROS is NOT the mode for this sort of test! I came to the shack at 05:15 UTC to find the regular beaconing had stopped running. Apparently if a signal is received the software stops any beacon (to avoid causing QRM) and in this instance it didn't = restart the beacon timer afterwards - therefore my log shows that at 23:34 UTC there was a (not correctly decoded) RX frame, and after that no = further beacons were sent. Sorry. WSPR would seem to be the mode for finding an opening, not ROS, I won't be using it again in anger. I find as a QSO mode it is very ponderous, which I can accept for the ability to resolve signals deep in the noise, inaudible even, but it didn't seem to perform very well = in the presence of lightning QRN - requiring signals to be audible before it decoded them. On top of that I find the actual software to be very difficult to drive. As Mal pointed out, the continuous appearance if spots & information of activity on every other band is very annoying, and seemingly can't be turned off. The Beacon functionality is seriously flawed for the use we put it to. The secret nature of the modem means no one else can integrate ROS into existing (more user friendly) software (fldigi, multipsk etc). The PSKreporter spot-collecting website, while a laudable project, is no way as usable as the WSPRNet online database, which makes finding and tabulating reception reports more difficult. I'll stick with WSPR for beaconing, which is what it was intended for, and look into other MFSK modes for QSOs. Anyone interested in some MFSK-4 tests over the weekend? Cheers, John GM4SLV ------=_NextPart_000_01C6_01CC6A92.C813C4D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FB  Laurence,  so  far so  = good then !=20 , looks  like your  14  meg  monitor  is =20 doing  well !
 
Gus  was  wondering about   = 136=20 Khz  ?  could  be  a  possibility = ?
 
73 -G..
 
 

From: Laurence KL7UK
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 8:57 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: RE: LF: ros

Thanks Graham - an interesting mode...!
And appreciate = the=20 signals. The PC didn't misbehave overnight.


Laurence KL7UK/AM = Minneapolis enroute Anchorage


From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To= : rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Date:=20 Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:08:26 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: ros

That's an unfortunate  start to = the =20 winter  !
 
The  MF mode  has  had = very =20 little  usage compared  to the  HF , so its  quite=20 possible  some  bug's  lurk   within
as  with  the  HF side,=20 operation  is unique , however all  be  it=20  functional , its  worth  noting  , the =20 whole  mode/project  is the
some  work  of one person ..=20
 
It  is  firstly a  = qso  mode ,=20 so  as  noticed  the  beacon  side  = tends =20 to  favour  users of the channel ,
 
As noted  by Gary , there  = was a=20 beacon-timer  freeze problem  with the  previous =20 issue
 
Programme freeze , was that   = PC=20 lock  , or  just ROS ? not  experienced any = freeze  =20 problems   for  some time  now =20   
 
Psk-Reporter can  offer  = some =20 history data  from the  stats page, unique  band =20 spots  for  136/500
can be  obtained by  = setting =20 the  Band =3D unknown. but  to  date  there  is = no=20 searchable data  base
for the  ros  system.. ( = A  stored=20 history  of the  received  text would be =20 useful....but  not avilable)
 
Static problem's  , a bit  = subjective may=20 be ? but  if  the  same  occurs in the  = near =20 future , an audio recording  would  be useful for =20 evaluation ,
 
The  s/n  indication  is = a=20 average  value  of the  received  frame , with = the =20 'Margin'  being the amount  of  signal  over = the =20 'limit of  resolution'
so  at the  lower = levels  its =20 quite  possible a  % of  the  data  was under = the =20 threshold , low  level  decodes are rarely  100% = crc  ,=20 but  it  is a
live 'rtty'  mode, = structured =20 for  data  rate V s/n , at  levels  of  -30 = > -33dB=20 average  it is  predictable there  will  be a level = of =20 corruption ?
 
If  anyone has any requests /=20 observations  , >  nietoros@hotmail.com; =
 
Tnx  all  - G..
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

From: Gary - G4WGT
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 10:22 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: ros

John & All,=20

Apparently the latest ROS version v6.6.9 has been changed to = prevent beacon=20 mode stopping when other signals encountered.

73, Gary - G4WGT.


On 2 September 2011 06:39, John GM4SLV <gm4slv@sighthound.demon.co.= uk>=20 wrote:
On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 15:45:19 -0800
Laurence KL7UK = <hellozerohellozero@hotmail= .com>=20 wrote:

>
> KL7UK now ROS 500kHz for the night=20 -
>
>

Laurence, LF,

ROS is NOT the = mode for=20 this sort of test!

I came to the shack at 05:15 UTC to find the = regular=20 beaconing had
stopped running. Apparently if a signal is received = the=20 software stops
any beacon (to avoid causing QRM) and in this = instance it=20 didn't restart
the beacon timer afterwards - therefore my log shows = that at=20 23:34 UTC
there was a (not correctly decoded) RX frame, and after = that no=20 further
beacons were sent.

Sorry.

WSPR would seem to = be the=20 mode for finding an opening, not ROS,

I won't be using it again = in=20 anger. I find as a QSO mode it is very
ponderous, which I can = accept for=20 the ability to resolve signals deep
in the noise, inaudible even, = but it=20 didn't seem to perform very well in
the presence of lightning QRN - = requiring signals to be audible before
it decoded them.

On = top of=20 that I find the actual software to be very difficult to
drive. As = Mal=20 pointed out, the continuous appearance if spots &
information = of=20 activity on every other band is very annoying, and
seemingly can't = be=20 turned off. The Beacon functionality is seriously
flawed for the = use we put=20 it to. The secret nature of the modem means
no one else can = integrate ROS=20 into existing (more user friendly)
software (fldigi, multipsk=20 etc).

The PSKreporter spot-collecting website, while a laudable = project, is
no way as usable as the WSPRNet online database, which = makes=20 finding
and tabulating reception reports more = difficult.

I'll stick=20 with WSPR for beaconing, which is what it was intended for,
and = look into=20 other MFSK modes for QSOs.

Anyone interested in some MFSK-4 = tests over=20 the=20 weekend?


 Cheers,

John
GM4SLV





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