Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.21]) by air-db09.mail.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILINDB091-85f54dc67d9f216; Sun, 08 May 2011 07:25:19 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3DE7238000181; Sun, 8 May 2011 07:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1QJ25a-0001um-OU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 May 2011 12:23:54 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1QJ25a-0001ud-0v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 May 2011 12:23:54 +0100 Received: from nm3-vm0.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.183.228]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1QJ25Y-0000EW-1U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 May 2011 12:23:53 +0100 Received: from [217.146.183.183] by nm3.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2011 11:23:46 -0000 Received: from [217.146.183.72] by tm14.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2011 11:23:46 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1033.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 May 2011 11:23:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 41663.14896.bm@omp1033.mail.ukl.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 6188 invoked from network); 8 May 2011 11:23:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=GVIY/+GCt5svmOxbJItNKmk+XkG5Ae/c16EFUUV2bWrg46X9QwkL9BhCRcRfI+dy2Hzdu0Wbb+hx9TZhkQZ1O7gRSo03CIrd6zf5w3oEfAqgU0tPdzCp/6QlXd6/DEJW3W7oF7Hivwyu/GwJU161canE7dYxEpZ0HbgmWshsWuc= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1304853825; bh=RQMEJNT4uty9yKd1gay2uufX9rS49jfEpwYAt+R9dng=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=zFU67CSR5IAbQxNut45LQ4Sjda8BGz8TBeVx1elH+wwvCb2sN8KjrzL9q1Kk0RhvEW9k3RnYC+bT0snfD9QCRtE26PMMGSJw+rf7bnj7qyteYtrO8wrsfu4uKiaXZjsWrUyPcg33/7Jzyw8jG+3r3k48pU0/CDG00jM8JuCUegA= Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@109.156.118.245 with login) by smtp820.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 08 May 2011 11:23:45 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: jc.tWPEVM1kIchmspOfErs.KClyiPrVruzUncAGh3Haw09X DgdGFtwo_81XAo8fGSObKNxJ9_n7cQZAPPfHWbklywu3ZfqvrmH6_F1Dxkwp 0ltYsCRS4SlDX0RwZn9FvpF6mxXv8.7v6fphDq2fiv3.fJISXImmSRE1GDYK EmzsRRhJHtpOdPnkXyVdyUy0wnGEXyGGV4OWE7IYIECIoPggkMlifqlqRuSx X25TZzzn_ozIMK9P.f1sgcMFjX2sG4kMw4PqHvXwcarmEtev0CWkpE2VeYw2 5F8qcBxGmRGs3yqEf5wxeUOB_yKfR3JluS2bN3MuwmcFX9ieukdEqJ3htOlR O1kjMtNm.m.0YXUINBp81YMjbxH2YW7rVZjLhCBoUXxm9dd9SYc.Huq1jy7i .IA6dsNlQMZ2LO_xat4RgMQKzkZfc_qn0yTSIzhIZIsJVRu6h651HXmI- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <66D678B54F9F43EA8421AE7B1BB96770@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <4DC527C4.3070903@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4DC56FCB.1050509@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <14CAC29AA012468A844D715FA1A336F8@JimPC> <4DC5AF77.2060706@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> In-Reply-To: <4DC5AF77.2060706@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 12:23:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18417 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: CW... Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-15"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d264.1 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41154dc67d9d3045 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dear Stefan, LF Group, The loop I am using is detailed at https://sites.google.com/site/uk500khz/members-files/files - see the file "BPloops2.pdf". These loops use a 1m x 1m single turn made of copper tube. The unloaded Q of the single turn is quite high, >100, provided a very low-resistance capacitor (about 400nF for 136k) is used. So the Q is similar to a multi-turn loop, although the impedance is very much lower. The low impedance means it is easy to feed a 50ohms input, and it is very insensitive to de-tuning. The loop is used in a bandpass design that gives a flat response over about 10kHz bandwidth without re-tuning, combined with better out-of-band rejection. A single loop gives a figure-of-8 directional pattern with 2 nulls 180 degrees apart, and it is well known that combining equal-amplitude signals from a loop and a vertical with the correct phase gives a cardioid pattern with a single null. If the signal amplitude from the vertical is reduced, the result is a skewed figure-of-8 pattern, with less than 180 degrees between the two nulls. With appropriate adjustment of the vertical signal level and the loop direction, you can have 2 nulls seperated by any angle from 0 - 180 degrees. I used this type of arrangement when Loran-C was being transmitted from Rugby a few years ago - then it was not possible to null both the Rugby and Lessay signals with a simple loop at this QTH, because the difference in bearing between the transmitters was only 100 degrees or so. The procedure was to aim the loop on a bearing half way between the bearings of the two transmitters, then adjust amplitude and phase of the loop/vertical signals until both signals were nulled. This was quite effective, and it was possible to effectively eliminate both Loran signals while getting good coverage of Europe. Of course, the usefulness of this type of system depends on the direction of the wanted signal being well away from the interfering transmitters, but looking at the map, it should be possible to make it work quite well for receiving signals to the west of Heidelberg while rejecting DCF39 and HGA22 Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU