Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w0PGNbti005003 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:23:38 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1eekDA-00051y-C1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 16:17:12 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1eekD7-00051p-T6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 16:17:09 +0000 Received: from omr-a014e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.62]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eekD0-0002wm-0P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 16:17:08 +0000 Received: from mtaout-aab02.mx.aol.com (mtaout-aab02.mx.aol.com [172.26.126.206]) by omr-a014e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id BC61B3800097 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:16:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from MichaelSappPC (MichaelSappPC [74.111.113.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-aab02.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 4307238000087 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:16:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <66243EDEBFF7461DB02BEF05807F4559@MichaelSappPC> From: "Michael Sapp" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:16:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.19705 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7ece5a6a02f82016 X-AOL-IP: 74.111.113.147 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Roger & All: I ran my FT-817 on 137 kHz stateside here to see how well it would work with my W1VD version of the e-probe. Initially it was 10 to 15 dB down versus my high level LF converter that uses a level 23 double balanced mixer and 2N5109 preamplifier [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID BODY: Test for Invalidly Named or Formatted Colors in HTML 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_REMOTE_IMAGE Message contains an external image X-Scan-Signature: 4dc93b4c6652b38413da2859d0d448ac Subject: LF: Re: Re: 136kHz WSPR experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01D395CE.0086EB40" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01D395CE.0086EB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger & All: I ran my FT-817 on 137 kHz stateside here to see how well = it would work with my W1VD version of the e-probe. Initially it was 10 = to 15 dB down versus my high level LF converter that uses a level 23 = double balanced mixer and 2N5109 preamplifier =20 I found the FT-817 LF/MF performance improves very nicely when using a = low pass filter at LF/MF that has good pass band 50 ohm return loss = ---like a Butterworth LPF with a 500 or 300 kHz cutoff. About half way = through the evening running the e-probe to LPF to FT-817 on 2200m wspr2, = I decided to build and add a broadband 2N3904 amplifier stage. An extra = 10 dB or so of net gain after my LPF for 137 kHz WSPR2 listening made a = large improvement. I had some +3000 km decodes from WH2XXP overnight = in the mid teens for SNR values, whereas I was having only WSPR2 limit = range decodes of WH2XXP without the added preamplifier gain. Initial = FT-817 settings were IPO "off", NB "off" AGC "off." After adding the = broadband 2N3904 preamp I had to run the input attenuator in the FT-817 = and had AGC set to fast with about a S3-S4 background level. It seems = some gain is needed to get through the RX front end in the FT-817, but = using the attenuator in the radio does not seem to hurt RX performance = with about 20dB of total preamp gain. Tonight I hope to add a variable = bias resistor to fine tune the preamplifier gain for best FT-817 = performance. I did try playing with the alignment menu setting "01" for .5 to 2 MHz = IF gain in the FT-817. Higher or lower "01" settings did not make any = difference in FT-817 receiver sensitivity at LF/MF. But having a good = 50 ohm Z match with an LPF to the FT-817 appears to be essential for = good reception at 137 or 475 kHz....then adding the preamplifier after = the LPF makes up for the rx front end deficiencies. My high level = converter would still be my preference for performance, but the = e-probe>LPF>2N3904 preamp>FT-817 and attenuator worked reasonably well = here... 73 Mike wa3tts FT-817 reception overnight on 2200m band 2018-01-25 07:48 WH2XXP 0.137507 -18 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 07:52 WH2XXP 0.137507 -19 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 07:44 WH2XXP 0.137507 -20 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 07:56 WH2XXP 0.137507 -20 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 09:00 WH2XXP 0.137507 -21 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 08:56 WH2XXP 0.137507 -22 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65=20 2018-01-25 06:36 WH2XXP 0.137507 -30 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 11:04 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 10:08 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 11:56 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 06:24 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 12:20 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 05:52 WH2XXP 0.137507 -31 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 10:28 WH2XXP 0.137507 -32 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 05:56 WH2XXP 0.137507 -32 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 12:36 WH2XXP 0.137507 -33 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65 =20 2018-01-25 04:44 WH2XXP 0.137507 -33 0 DM33 1 = WA3TTS/2 EN90xn 3014 65=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 4:21 AM Subject: LF: Re: 136kHz WSPR experiment Sorry about the spurious "," . On 24 January 2018 at 09:19, Roger Lapthorn = wrote: A couple of Gs came on. G3XIZ (46km) was 2-3dB better S/N on the = earth-electrodes than on the compromise vertical. He is end-on to the = "loop" in the ground. G6AVK was not copied at all. He is orthogonal to = the "loop" in the ground. I was quite surprised not to spot him at all = though. Conclusions? The earth-electrode "antenna" in the ground is quite = effective at 136kHz, but more directional. Next season I will definitely try an , E-field probe on RX! No great DX, but experimentation! 73s Roger G3XBM Virus-free. www.avg.com =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01D395CE.0086EB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
 Roger & All:  I ran my = FT-817 on 137=20 kHz stateside here to see how well it would work with my W1VD version of = the=20 e-probe.  Initially it was 10 to 15 dB down versus my high level LF = converter that  uses a level 23 double balanced mixer and 2N5109=20 preamplifier 
 
I found the FT-817 LF/MF performance = improves very=20 nicely when using  a low pass filter at LF/MF that has good pass = band 50=20 ohm return loss ---like a Butterworth LPF with a 500 or 300 kHz=20 cutoff.  About half way through the evening running the e-probe to = LPF to=20 FT-817 on 2200m wspr2, I decided to build and add a broadband 2N3904 = amplifier=20 stage. An extra 10 dB or so of net gain after my LPF for 137 kHz WSPR2 = listening=20 made a large improvement.  I had some +3000 km  decodes from = WH2XXP=20 overnight in the mid teens for SNR values, whereas I was having only = WSPR2 limit=20 range decodes of WH2XXP without the added preamplifier gain.  = Initial=20 FT-817 settings were IPO "off", NB "off" AGC "off."   After = adding the=20 broadband 2N3904 preamp I had to run the input attenuator in the FT-817 = and had=20 AGC set to fast with about a S3-S4 background level.  It seems some = gain is=20 needed to get through the RX front end in the FT-817, but using the = attenuator=20 in the radio does not seem to hurt RX performance with about 20dB of = total=20 preamp gain. Tonight I hope to add a variable bias resistor to fine tune = the=20 preamplifier gain for best FT-817 performance.
 
 I did try playing with the = alignment menu=20 setting "01" for .5 to 2 MHz IF gain in the FT-817.  Higher or = lower =20 "01" settings did not make any difference in FT-817 receiver sensitivity = at=20 LF/MF.   But having a good 50 ohm Z match with an LPF to the = FT-817=20 appears to be essential for good reception at 137 or 475 kHz....then = adding the=20 preamplifier after the LPF makes up for the rx front end = deficiencies. My=20 high level converter would still be my preference for performance, but = the=20 e-probe>LPF>2N3904 preamp>FT-817 and attenuator worked = reasonably well=20 here...
 
73 Mike wa3tts
 
  FT-817 reception overnight on = 2200m=20 band
 
 2018-01-25 = 07:48   WH2XXP   0.137507   -18   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 07:52   WH2XXP   0.137507   -19   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 07:44   WH2XXP   0.137507   -20   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 07:56   WH2XXP   0.137507   -20   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 09:00   WH2XXP   0.137507   -21   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 08:56   WH2XXP   0.137507   -22   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65
 
 
 2018-01-25 = 06:36   WH2XXP   0.137507   -30   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 11:04   WH2XXP   0.137507   -31   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 10:08   WH2XXP   0.137507   -31   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 11:56   WH2XXP   0.137507   -31   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 06:24   WH2XXP   0.137507   -31   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 12:20   WH2XXP   0.137507   -31   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 05:52   WH2XXP   0.137507   -31   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 10:28   WH2XXP   0.137507   -32   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 05:56   WH2XXP   0.137507   -32   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 12:36   WH2XXP   0.137507   -33   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65 
 2018-01-25 = 04:44   WH2XXP   0.137507   -33   0   DM33   1   WA3TTS/2   EN90xn   3014   65
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Roger=20 Lapthorn
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, = 2018 4:21=20 AM
Subject: LF: Re: 136kHz WSPR=20 experiment

Sorry about the spurious "," .

On 24 January 2018 at 09:19, Roger Lapthorn = <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:
A=20 couple of Gs came on. G3XIZ (46km) was 2-3dB better S/N on = the=20 earth-electrodes than on the compromise vertical. He is end-on to = the "loop"=20 in the ground. G6AVK was not copied at all. He is = orthogonal=20 to the "loop" in the ground. I was quite surprised not to spot him = at all=20 though.


Conclusions?=20 The earth-electrode "antenna" in the ground is quite effective at = 136kHz,=20 but more directional.


Next=20 season I will definitely try an , E-field probe on RX!


No=20 great DX, but experimentation!


73s

Roger=20 G3XBM



Virus-free.=20 www.avg.com
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