Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.74]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE061-5eb64b40e3023e5; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 13:33:38 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 402843800007F; Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:33:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NRVFp-0003n9-7z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:32:41 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NRVFo-0003n0-2Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:32:40 +0000 Received: from web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.127]) by relay3.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NRVFn-0001LG-UQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:32:39 +0000 Received: (qmail 50627 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jan 2010 18:32:34 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1262543554; bh=BAQihTRRR7fHUJp6kie79+iucuCN3AR8jMv19Zm3FDM=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=PTg/MhYBPxw0ERWg18Zqf5+HM9U5q3qszfvpTGhhsslIo1EvEmgnG4Xg/hzpTVW84dbFaB0TECs/al6bQMv37+jXhk7wOVhUsmLTaO0XlsJu4QqwiG71oHCO8GT4aOIiQw1vgBzXaj+u18sMLfrJ5qLXPxoAaFDN/8H+ePcxea0= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=HcgFfVCIHRkrs8b/G4zJhrKRn2SHUNArkxPtpVdcrCXv/Yx63CHv8UXGvfDnQWKjr9gspgg/poIQwNz4VcvWd0B8uEPUfQSW9NbzH2QBWSa+70O+z1EuGo3hdaVjIEPDqu1G16j2ojSehWvqu+Qgdy5srqpdB7i4ArKvmmRCqcI=; Message-ID: <639393.50610.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Jyw4HcIVM1lMOvuJG.jBUiJpLtNtohK.5uXSLosppcygDHLHIaH0BCh3DyC61pYlHr0KnYRahsn_rgB2b1kLXQ2Anl_SvFrk_VviobfpMha85JKxTxYLu2bfUYm02JC2I6SrS5K_35yrULTHAkNxRLoaaGzVIK1NkrI.qpWio3ofmSqPK7jBiZOgvgER1BZ7rRqyoEwLMNyb7ooKgvkGYdmoBx267od4y1iwi.Zm1llMA4NkGXTG.QrxuNM7FJhiAC6oaTYrTmEksFCS0EhSz1E- Received: from [86.147.177.124] by web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Jan 2010 10:32:34 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.0.20 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 10:32:34 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1276636367-1262543554=:50610" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404a4b40e3017429 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1276636367-1262543554=:50610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good point Andy =A0 My method on 30m is to use a $30 Softrock=A0T/RX and use an VAC (Virtual= Audio Cable) to interconnect Joes software to my SDR application audio in= put and visa versa for the RX. Still linear though and very low power but= =A0in the spirit of WSPR. =A0It uses 3 x=A0QSD chips one in the RX and two in the TX plus a=A0=A04x= low noise Op amps one or two=A0bipolar devices=A0and some TTL for the LO= phase shift. All the hardware is in a 6x4x1.5 plastic box tucked behind= the PC. I can even multitask on the PC with some little disturbance to the T/RX op= eration. A testimony to optimising equipment utilisation. The SSB rig sits= gathering dust. =A0 The SR T/RX I am certain can me adapted to 500kc/s (the RX can) . In fact= if the onboard TR change over can be dispensed with=A0and taking RF strai= ght off the QSD mixer via a=A0a suitable transformer would go straight int= o a 500kc/s=A0linear PA bypassing the SR pa circuit. Again allowing the us= er to TX and RX=A0 any Diggi mode from software held on the PC via the VAC= .=20 Its a software Virtual World now..... do we really exist?? It's all Philip= K Dick's fault!!!=A0=A0 =A0 Must stop drinking the Fullers 73 es GL petefmt --- On Sun, 3/1/10, Andy Talbot wrote: From: Andy Talbot Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 17:55 For the narrow range of frequencies needed for WSPR, a 90 degree phase shi= ft network at audio need consist of no more than a pair of CR's; although= a pair of op-amp allpass networks=A0does a=A0better job. =A0 Direct conversion from baseband to 137 or 500kHz=A0by phase shifting teh= audio, then=A0followed by a Soft-rock style QSD in reverse.=A0 http://www= .g4jnt.com/LFUpconv.pdf It would be simpler still if Joe could be persuaded to provide I/Q outputs= from the soundcard. =A0 May be slightly more complicated than a mixer from RF, but does mean you= don't need to tie up the SSB rig transmitting all that HF output, only to= lose it all again in an attenuator (assuming no low level output, of cour= se) Andy 2010/1/3 M0FMT OK Rik =A0 May be your way is simpler. I was thinking along the lines of an existing= SSB rig in most but not all shacks existing free=A0software - 3 x 2n2222= devices a mixer chip an xtal and may be a fet pa like what G3XBM has prop= osed. =A0 Phase shifting a carrier which in the software is done at audio in old Joe= whats his names software can be done at RF cariier frequency granted ....= but is it over all simpler than a transverter method described above? =A0 Having built your 500kc/s transverter all other=A0free to down load diggi= modes are then possible (Goord 'elp us) even dare I say CW ........ oh th= ats not PC on this reflector forgot..... =A0slapped wrists. =A0 73 HNY petefmt From: Rik Strobbe =20 Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 17:16=20 Pete, There is no need for linear amplification with WSPR, so things can be kept= simple. Another way to get a 500kHz WSPR signal is to generate WSPR with the tones= 14.6Hz separated at 5MHz and then divide by 10. As Andy states the WSPR protocol is public (and pretty straightforward),= so writing the appropriate software shouldn'd be to hard. 73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T Quoting M0FMT : > Probably simpler to to make up a transverter - mixer with a xtal=A0 cont= rolled oscillator and a few stages of linear amplification=A0 driving the= mixer with an SSB rig. The whole thing about WSPR is the=A0 Low power asp= ect so no QRO linears required if you play the game.=A0 Then use the readi= ly available Software that can be down loaded for=A0 free.... no brain sur= gery required. >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Sun, 3/1/10, Andy Talbot wrote: >=20 > From: Andy Talbot > Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 15:59 >=20 > There is a way... >=20 > If you can arrange an oscillator so that it can be pulled onto the > four WSPR tone frequencies (separated by 1.46Hz ) by two logic lines. > This could be as simple as two resistors, one twice the value of the > other, giving a 2-bit D/A converter, controlling a varicap on the > oscillator. >=20 > Then a PIC keyer can generate the logic level drive. > See=A0 =A0 www.g4jnt.com/WSPRBCNS.ZIP=A0=A0=A0for details of generating= teh WSPR > message and the PIC code >=20 > The design in there uses a GPS receiver to get accurate timing, but > with some trivial PIC code changes it could be made to work in a > standalone manually trigerred mode. >=20 > Perhaps there's a demand here... >=20 > WSPR encoding on the fly is easy enough in a PC > http://www.g4jnt.com/wspr_coding_process.pdf > A prog could be written to output the two-bit data via a USB/Serial > port and PIC based dongle... >=20 > Andy > www.g4jnt.com >=20 >=20 >=20 > Andy > www.g4jnt.com >=20 > This email has been scanned for damaging side-effects by the health > and safety police, is guaranteed to contain no substances hazardous to > health, but may contribute to dissolving the nether and polar regions >=20 >=20 >=20 > 2010/1/3 Graham=A0 >: >> Roger >>=20 >> '''=A0 More people should use WSPR - ''' >>=20 >> That's not as=A0 easy as=A0 it=A0 sounds , wspr=A0 needs=A0 a=A0 liner= audio to=A0 rf >> carrier frequency=A0 conversion,=A0 ...fine=A0 if you have a=A0 convent= ional >> transverter , mf exciter or ham set that works down to=A0 500/137 ...No= good >> if you=A0 have dividing logic in the amplifier=A0 drive train , vfo=A0= controlled >> or PIC based without the=A0 'ability'=A0 to=A0 run a wspr=A0 generating= =A0 code set .. >> Its a=A0 good=A0 point worth making though ... >>=20 >> G.. >> From: Roger Lapthorn >> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 10:20 PM >> To:=A0 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb >> Mal, >>=20 >> Some suggestions: >>=20 >> More people should use WSPR - lots of stations (more than 100 at a time >> based on 10MHz usage) are able to operate together within just a 200Hz= slice >> of the band allowing very useful data on propagation and station >> performance/changes to be determined.=A0 This would leave plenty of roo= m >> elsewhere in the band for CW and other narrowband conversational modes. >> Occasional testing with SSB, for those allowed to use it (not UK), is= of >> interest to me as a listener, but I agree that it's not a good idea to= use >> this mode when the band is open for really long-distance DX if interfer= ence >> to weak signals is likely. >> You should try a New Year resolution: "I will be more tolerant and moan >> less". >>=20 >> 73s and a happy New Year to all on this reflector >>=20 >> Roger G3XBM >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 2010/1/2 mal hamilton=A0 > >>>=20 >>> I am afraid we have a SSB beacon on 508 kcs spreading over 3 kcs wide= and >>> S9 plus with me. Beacon SM6BHZ is causing QRM to those of us trying to >>> listen and work the East Coast USA stations. I cannot understand why= a >>> station is licensed to work SSB in such a narrow band allocation. >>> The 500 kcs band is a Shambles swamped by beacons. >>> Does anyone else have an opinion? >>> G3KEV >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> G3XBM=A0 =A0 GQRP 1678=A0 =A0 =A0 ISWL G11088 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 =20 --0-1276636367-1262543554=:50610 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good point Andy
 
My method on 30m is to use a $30 Softrock T/RX and use an VAC (V= irtual Audio Cable) to interconnect Joes software to my SDR application au= dio input and visa versa for the RX. Still linear though and very low powe= r but in the spirit of WSPR.
 It uses 3 x QSD chips one in the RX and two in the TX plus= a  4x low noise Op amps one or two bipolar devices an= d some TTL for the LO phase shift. All the hardware is in a 6x4x1.5 plasti= c box tucked behind the PC.
I can even multitask on the PC with some little disturbance to the T/= RX operation. A testimony to optimising equipment utilisation. The SSB rig= sits gathering dust.
 
The SR T/RX I am certain can me adapted to 500kc/s (the RX can) . In= fact if the onboard TR change over can be dispensed with and taking= RF straight off the QSD mixer via a a suitable transformer would go= straight into a 500kc/s linear PA bypassing the SR pa circuit. Again= allowing the user to TX and RX  any Diggi mode from software held on= the PC via the VAC.
Its a software Virtual World now..... do we really exist?? It's all= Philip K Dick's fault!!!  
 
Must stop drinking the Fullers

73 es GL petefmt

--- On= Sun, 3/1/10, Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com>= wrote:

From: Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.co= m>
Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org
Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 17:55

For the narrow range of frequencies needed for WSPR, a 90 degree phas= e shift network at audio need consist of no more than a pair of= CR's; although a pair of op-amp allpass networks does a better= job.
 
Direct conversion from baseband to 137 or 500kHz by phase shifti= ng teh audio, then followed by a Soft-rock style QSD in reverse. = ; http://www.g4jnt.com/LFUpconv.pdf
It would be simpler still if Joe could be persuaded to provide I/Q ou= tputs from the soundcard.
 
May be slightly more complicated than a mixer from RF, but does mean= you don't need to tie up the SSB rig transmitting all that HF output, onl= y to lose it all again in an attenuator (assuming no low level output, of= course)

Andy
2010/1/3 M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk= >
=
OK Rik
 
May be your way is simpler. I was thinking along the lines of an exis= ting SSB rig in most but not all shacks existing free software - 3 x= 2n2222 devices a mixer chip an xtal and may be a fet pa like what G3XBM= has proposed.
 
Phase shifting a carrier which in the software is done at audio in ol= d Joe whats his names software can be done at RF cariier frequency granted= .... but is it over all simpler than a transverter method described above= ?
 
Having built your 500kc/s transverter all other free to down loa= d diggi modes are then possible (Goord 'elp us) even dare I say CW .......= . oh thats not PC on this reflector forgot.....  slapped wrists.
 
73 HNY petefmt





From: Rik Strobbe <Rik.Str= obbe@fys.kuleuven.be>=20

Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 17:16=20


Pete,

There is no need for linear amplification with WSPR, so= things can be kept simple.
Another way to get a 500kHz WSPR signal is= to generate WSPR with the tones 14.6Hz separated at 5MHz and then divide= by 10.
As Andy states the WSPR protocol is public (and pretty straight= forward), so writing the appropriate software shouldn'd be to hard.
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

Quoting M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk>:

> Probably simpler to to= make up a transverter - mixer with a xtal  controlled oscillator and= a few stages of linear amplification  driving the mixer with an SSB= rig. The whole thing about WSPR is the  Low power aspect so no QRO= linears required if you play the game.  Then use the readily availab= le Software that can be down loaded for  free.... no brain surgery re= quired.
>
> 73 es GL petefmt
>
> --- On Sun, 3/1/10, Andy Talbo= t <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com<= /A>> wrote:
>
> From: Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com>
> Subject:= Re: LF: Anti Social ssb
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Sunday, 3 January= , 2010, 15:59
>
> There is a way...
>
> If you= can arrange an oscillator so that it can be pulled onto the
> four= WSPR tone frequencies (separated by 1.46Hz ) by two logic lines.
>= This could be as simple as two resistors, one twice the value of the
&= gt; other, giving a 2-bit D/A converter, controlling a varicap on the
> oscillator.
>
&= gt; Then a PIC keyer can generate the logic level drive.
> See =   www.g4jnt.com/WSPRBCNS.ZIP   for details of= generating teh WSPR
> message and the PIC code
>
> The= design in there uses a GPS receiver to get accurate timing, but
>= with some trivial PIC code changes it could be made to work in a
>= standalone manually trigerred mode.
>
> Perhaps there's a de= mand here...
>
> WSPR encoding on the fly is easy enough in= a PC
> http://www.g4jnt.com/wspr_coding_process.pdf
> A prog could be written to output the two-bit data via a USB/Se= rial
> port and PIC based dongle...
>
> Andy
> www.g4jnt= .com
>
>
>
> Andy
> www.g4jnt.com
>=
> This email has been scanned for damaging side-effects by the hea= lth
> and safety police, is guaranteed to contain no substances haza= rdous to
> health, but may contribute to dissolving the nether and= polar regions
>
>
>
> 2010/1/3 Graham  &l= t;g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk<<= A href=3D"http://uk.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dg8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet= .co.uk" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>http://uk.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/c= ompose?to=3Dg8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>>:
>> Roger
>= >
>> '''  More people should use WSPR - '''
>>=
>> That's not as  easy as  it  sounds , wspr  needs  a  liner audio to&= nbsp; rf
>> carrier frequency  conversion,  ...fine&nbs= p; if you have a  conventional
>> transverter , mf exciter= or ham set that works down to  500/137 ...No good
>> if you=   have dividing logic in the amplifier  drive train , vfo = controlled
>> or PIC based without the  'ability'  to&= nbsp; run a wspr  generating  code set ..
>> Its a = ; good  point worth making though ...
>>
>> G..>> From: Roger Lapthorn
>> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 201= 0 10:20 PM
>> To:  rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<http://uk.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Drsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org>
>> Subject: Re: LF: Anti Social ssb
>= ;> Mal,
>>
>> Some suggestions:
>>
>= > More people should use WSPR - lots of stations (more than 100 at a ti= me
>> based on 10MHz usage) are able to operate together within= just a 200Hz slice
>> of the band allowing very useful data on= propagation and station
>> performance/changes to be determined.=   This would leave plenty of room
>> elsewhere in the band= for CW and other narrowband conversational modes.
>> Occasional= testing with SSB, for those allowed to use it (not UK), is of
>>= interest to me as a listener, but I agree that it's not a good idea to us= e
>> this mode when the band is open for really long-distance DX= if interference
>> to weak signals is likely.
>> You sh= ould try a New Year resolution: "I will be more tolerant and moan
>> less".
= >>
>> 73s and a happy New Year to all on this reflector>>
>> Roger G3XBM
>>
>>
>>=
>>
>> 2010/1/2 mal hamilton  <g3kevmal@talktalk.net<http://uk.mc281.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dg3kevmal@t= alktalk.net>>
>>>
>>> I am afraid we ha= ve a SSB beacon on 508 kcs spreading over 3 kcs wide and
>>>= S9 plus with me. Beacon SM6BHZ is causing QRM to those of us trying to>>> listen and work the East Coast USA stations. I cannot unders= tand why a
>>> station is licensed to work SSB in such a narro= w band allocation.
>>> The 500 kcs band is a Shambles swamped by bea= cons.
>>> Does anyone else have an opinion?
>>> G3= KEV
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>= -------------------------------------------------------------
>>= http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk<http://ww= w.g3xbm.co.uk/>
>> G3XBM    GQRP 1678  &nbs= p;   ISWL G11088
>>
>>
>>
>
&= gt;
>
>






=20 --0-1276636367-1262543554=:50610--