Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1169; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t4V0AewJ000374 for ; Sun, 31 May 2015 02:10:40 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Yyqmu-00022M-9m for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 May 2015 01:07:36 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Yyqmt-00022D-Qz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 May 2015 01:07:35 +0100 Received: from omr-m10.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.86]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Yyqmr-0002V8-Mg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 May 2015 01:07:34 +0100 Received: from mtaout-mbc02.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mbc02.mx.aol.com [172.26.221.142]) by omr-m10.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id C13977000008E for ; Sat, 30 May 2015 20:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from White (ipb21bee4a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [178.27.238.74]) by mtaout-mbc02.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 47B653800008A for ; Sat, 30 May 2015 20:07:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6193AB3C29844ED2A88BFD49480C5055@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <91F37C608C8244FA9EE41F66FD8D79E6@White> <556A48E2.5040802@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 02:07:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1433030851; bh=tnLn9bcMTkSp8akx6LXk2N8nXfLyVuDtHc7GPUppC0c=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=J2CcmKux/Kk0c3FhpvWvLxNGKRBPQPX6xcRLeWW6xHVkT+OJ57dV5PKSiCV0MKZiv yE5/gcHKu3xevj+S8jQYfCk8WZwxJPZEpjW/ZieEBmNjtoSjkQxBUcUzMznPgebrIn wEv6zJs0dbhGH0kKAcd21OtG2aa4KL/os1LGs+LA= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1add8e556a50c361a8 X-AOL-IP: 178.27.238.74 X-Scan-Signature: 8d5e679c4ecb21aeba32cebcefaae7cb Subject: Re: LF: Dual-speed WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01D09B46.8C7A0F90" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3376 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01D09B46.8C7A0F90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah maybe. But at the moment I'd rather keep things as simple as = possible, and I anyway wouldn't expect a sharp optimum regarding speed. The idea is to compare the SNR of the slow sequence with the average of = the two surrounding fast sequences, received by the same monitor. If the = dB results were the same, we could probably exploit the full 9 dB = advantage due to the lower threshold (-38 vs -29 dB), otherwise we'd = have to subtract the dB difference. Results from first round: 2015-05-30 23:46 DF6NM 0.475791 -11 0 JN59nj 0.5 DL4YHF = JO42fd 359 330 =20 2015-05-30 23:30 DF6NM 0.475824 -8 0 JN59nj 0.5 DL4YHF = JO42fd 359 330 =20 2015-05-30 23:28 DF6NM 0.475791 -11 0 JN59nj 0.5 DL4YHF = JO42fd 359 330 =3D> WSPR-15 SNR happened to be 3 dB better! 2015-05-30 23:46 DF6NM 0.475790 -15 0 JN59nj 0.5 SM2DJK = KP03au 1694 15 2015-05-30 23:30 DF6NM 0.475823 -13 0 JN59nj 0.5 SM2DJK = KP03au 1694 15 =20 2015-05-30 23:28 DF6NM 0.475790 -14 0 JN59nj 0.5 SM2DJK = KP03au 1694 15 =3D> WSPR-15 shows 1.5 dB better. 2015-05-30 23:46 DF6NM 0.475792 +1 0 JN59nj 0.5 DG3LV = JO53gv 502 356 =20 2015-05-30 23:30 DF6NM 0.475824 -2 0 JN59nj 0.5 DG3LV = JO53gv 502 356 =20 2015-05-30 23:28 DF6NM 0.475792 -8 0 JN59nj 0.5 DG3LV = JO53gv 502 356=20 =3D> WSPR-15 shows 1.5 dB better. This is an unexpected result, implying that the advantage of WSPR-15 = would be more than 9 dB, instead of less. But on the other hand the dB = values may not be telling the whole story, because the threshold for a = fading signal might still be higher than -38 dB.=20 All the best, Markus (DF6NM) From: DK7FC=20 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 1:33 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Dual-speed WSPR Markus,=20 What about the old slow-WSPR by DF6NM? It could be useful to try WSPR-4 = for experiments. There is not just 2 and 15. And WSPR-120 on VLF... No = problem! 73, Stefan Am 31.05.2015 01:28, schrieb Markus Vester:=20 To allow SNR comparisons at different speeds, I will transmit a = mixed-mode beacon tonight. It will consist of two WSPR-2 sequences, = before and after a WSPR-15 sequence on each odd half hour: hh:28 - hh:30: WSPR-2 475.790 kHz hh:30 - hh:45: WSPR-15 475.823 kHz hh:46 - hh:48: WSPR-2 475.790 kHz Transmitter power is currently 25 watts into an antenna with 2% = efficiency. Am listening to both modes at all other times. All the best, Markus (DF6NM) ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01D09B46.8C7A0F90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yeah maybe. But at the moment I'd = rather keep=20 things as simple as possible, and I anyway wouldn't expect a sharp = optimum=20 regarding speed.
 
The idea is to compare the SNR of the = slow sequence=20 with the average of the two surrounding fast sequences, received = by the=20 same monitor. If the dB results were the same, we could probably = exploit=20 the full 9 dB advantage due to the lower threshold (-38 vs -29 dB), = otherwise=20 we'd have to subtract the dB difference.
 
Results from first round:
 
 2015-05-30 23:46  =20 DF6NM   0.475791   -11   0  =20 JN59nj   0.5   DL4YHF   JO42fd   = 359   330 
 2015-05-30 23:30  =20 DF6NM   0.475824   -8   0  =20 JN59nj   0.5   DL4YHF   JO42fd   = 359   330  
 2015-05-30 23:28  =20 DF6NM   0.475791   -11   0  =20 JN59nj   0.5   DL4YHF   JO42fd   = 359   330
=3D> = WSPR-15 SNR happened=20 to be 3 dB better!
 
 2015-05-30 23:46  =20 DF6NM   0.475790   -15   0  =20 JN59nj   0.5   SM2DJK   KP03au   = 1694   15
 2015-05-30 23:30   = DF6NM  =20 0.475823   -13   0   JN59nj  =20 0.5   SM2DJK   KP03au   1694   = 15 =20
 2015-05-30 23:28  =20 DF6NM   0.475790   -14   0  =20 JN59nj   0.5   SM2DJK   KP03au   = 1694   15
=3D> = WSPR-15 shows 1.5 dB=20 better.
 
 2015-05-30 23:46   DF6NM   = 0.475792  =20 +1   0   JN59nj   0.5  =20 DG3LV   JO53gv   502   356 
 2015-05-30 23:30   DF6NM   = 0.475824  =20 -2   0   JN59nj   0.5  =20 DG3LV   JO53gv   502   356 
 2015-05-30 23:28   DF6NM   = 0.475792  =20 -8   0   JN59nj   0.5  =20 DG3LV   JO53gv   502   356
=3D> WSPR-15 shows 1.5 dB=20 better.
 
This is an unexpected result, implying that the advantage of = WSPR-15=20 would be more than 9 dB, instead of less. But on the other hand the = dB=20 values may not be telling the whole story, because the threshold = for a=20 fading signal might still be higher than -38 dB.
 
All the best,
Markus (DF6NM)

From: DK7FC
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 1:33 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: Dual-speed WSPR

Markus, =

What=20 about the old slow-WSPR by DF6NM? It could be useful to try WSPR-4 for=20 experiments. There is not just 2 and 15. And WSPR-120 on VLF... No=20 problem!

73, Stefan

Am 31.05.2015 01:28, schrieb Markus = Vester:=20
To allow SNR comparisons at different = speeds, I=20 will transmit a mixed-mode beacon tonight. It will consist of two = WSPR-2=20 sequences, before and after a WSPR-15 sequence on each odd half=20 hour:
 
hh:28 - hh:30: WSPR-2 475.790=20 kHz
hh:30 - hh:45: WSPR-15 475.823 kHz
hh:46 - hh:48: WSPR-2 475.790=20 kHz
 
Transmitter power is currently 25 watts into an antenna = with 2%=20 efficiency. Am listening to both modes at all other times.
 
All the best,
Markus (DF6NM)
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