Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id x3HEmEaU000381 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 16:48:15 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1hGldu-0006dt-Ut for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 15:34:30 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1hGldr-0006dk-9w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 15:34:27 +0100 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hGldo-0001JW-Jt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 15:34:26 +0100 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C6BE2400FB for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 16:34:23 +0200 (CEST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=posteo.de Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.de; s=2017; t=1555511663; bh=/SZ9zpqAAC6SXajZIwCH3F3SOV4hc8K8mc2tpr7T3Tg=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From; b=Up3fzNZzLKHLnLVofckT1SUCY+MxTx4OEWQWNNNjrnC10E5WlbD8UcxCaqSzA+g+T hcOhmDw26/GXez+phyWmqHXF4d5gjmGG60u8vW1dPk0oBm5gTorLk0Qkae52YqhDNt Vmdd67aRvTzNCR3CcVA7ZMhl13qa6Vxu0COW7wZdjxYaHyM2VYpC+QXxbuMpFo/oE1 uks/AYjfWMJziLghIY4p02r6XdXJHl/WwC5l1hvEd4eZdiCDNxmES7lUf2X+j8bNoD a+BoivqM27riEWVZhca/x2H1supUb3CqD84CbH1pVfLO2PqFw0wU40ReEAbEWSzNLi 7IMA69qAHtP9w== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 44kl9p2wtJz9rxH for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 16:34:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5CB7396D.4080103@posteo.de> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 16:34:21 +0200 From: DK7FC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2094456453.3003296.1555358572044.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2094456453.3003296.1555358572044@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <2094456453.3003296.1555358572044@mail.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: RR Markus, thanks. Yes, 1.65 kHz is on the list. BTW the message has been decoded from the data of IK1QFK, with > 14 dB SNR. But more later. 73, Stefan Am 15.04.2019 22:02, schrieb Markus Vester: > Hi Stefan, > > > Do you have an idea why the E-W cardioid result is worse than from > the E field alone? > > Looking at https://vlf.u01.de/VLFgrabber/vlf9 [...] Content analysis details: (-2.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [185.67.36.66 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: a2799f12179c7d1ab7a77465394402a4 Subject: Re: ULF: Ground loop night transmission 3.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080705030306020701000101" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080705030306020701000101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit RR Markus, thanks. Yes, 1.65 kHz is on the list. BTW the message has been decoded from the data of IK1QFK, with > 14 dB SNR. But more later. 73, Stefan Am 15.04.2019 22:02, schrieb Markus Vester: > Hi Stefan, > > > Do you have an idea why the E-W cardioid result is worse than from > the E field alone? > > Looking at https://vlf.u01.de/VLFgrabber/vlf9.jpg we find that the > noise grew much more on the earth loop (top) than on the E-field > (bottom). One reason may be that our earth antennas pick up more 50 Hz > harmonics - these won't interfere with your QRG directly but may raise > the noise blanker threshold and make spherics blanking less effective. > We could also speculate about spherics with steep incidence angle, > albeit you were more or less in the middle between 1st and 2nd > vertical tweek resonances (1.65 and 3.3 kHz). Anyway the SNR ratio > between H to E seems to be similar to your receivers. > > Of course skywave components may also have a direct effect on your > signal but I don't know whether that would have been positive or > negative, or in which way to extrapolate downwards. I'm very curious > what would come out of a 1.65 kHz transmission during a quiet night. > > > Which carrier S/N do you get from the E field? > > Decoder output "carrier S/N 24.31 dB in 128.6 uHz" - should be related > to carrier Eb/N0 by adding 10 log (ncharacters * 5.7). > > Best 73, > Markus > > > -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- > Von: DK7FC > An: rsgb_lf_group > Verschickt: Mo, 15. Apr. 2019 10:32 > Betreff: Re: ULF: Ground loop night transmission 3.0 > > Hello Markus, ULF, > > Very well. Thanks for your decodes and for sharing the night :-) > Do you have an idea why the E-W cardioid result is worse than from the > E field alone? > Which carrier S/N do you get from the E field? I'm getting carrier > S/N: 40.62 dB in 128.6 uHz, 1.71 dB in 1Hz > The difference of our carrier Eb/N0 is 16.3 dB. But as Paul mentioned, > camparing carrier S/N may be more accurate in that spectrum range. > It could be interesting to compare the SNR difference between our > locations over some frequencies. If that value is reasonable constant, > in the far field, then we could estimate what we can expect at 970 Hz... > My results from all 3 antennas are still looking good at that frequency: > E field: carrier S/N: 40.62 dB in 128.6 uHz > N-S loop: carrier S/N: 28.38 dB in 128.6 uHz > E-W loop: carrier S/N: 30.47 dB in 128.6 uHz > > 73, Stefan > > > > Am 15.04.2019 01:33, schrieb Markus Vester: >> Hi Stefan, >> >> DL0AO H-field (E-W): Eb/N0 = 2.5 dB(car), 0.7 dB(sym), >> DL0AO E-Field: Eb/N0 = 12.0 dB(car), 10.9 dB (sym). >> >> Our file ended a couple of minutes early with the last 12 symbols >> missing, causing a slightly high symbol error reading. >> >> 73 and good night, >> Markus (DF6NM) >> >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- >> Von: DK7FC >> An: rsgb_lf_group >> ; Renato Romero >> >> Verschickt: So, 14. Apr. 2019 23:13 >> Betreff: Re: ULF: Ground loop night transmission 3.0 >> >> Hello ULF friends, >> >> Now i'm sitting in the car again in the deep forest. It is silent >> (outside!) and the sky is clear. The TX and EbNaut message is now >> running: >> >> *f = 2470.1 Hz >> Start time: 14.APR.2019 21:00:00.3 UTC >> Symbol period: 9 s >> Characters: 3 >> CRC bits: **16 >> Coding 16K21A >> Antenna current: 2.5 A >> Duration: 02:09:36 [hh:mm:ss] >> >> * TX power at the beginning of the transmission is 492 W this time. >> * >> * 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> Am 14.04.2019 14:41, schrieb DK7FC: >> Hello Dreamers, >> >> Today it feels right again, i'd like to have another exciting >> adventure... >> After the recent successes at 2970 Hz, maybe it is possible to get >> something through at 2470 Hz? That's the 121 km band. So far, thge >> distance record at this frequency is over to DL4YHF, QRB ~ 313 km. >> >> I'd like to try the following: >> >> *f = 2470.1 Hz >> Start time: 14.APR.2019 ab:cd:00.3 UTC >> Symbol period: 9 s >> Characters: 3 >> CRC bits: **16 >> Coding 16K21A >> Antenna current: 2.e A >> Duration: 02:09:36 [hh:mm:ss]* >> >> More details regarding start time and antenna current will follow >> after the transmission has started. >> >> Reports requested / welcome :-) >> >> 73, Stefan --------------080705030306020701000101 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit RR Markus, thanks.
Yes, 1.65 kHz is on the list.
BTW the message has been decoded from the data of IK1QFK, with > 14 dB SNR. But more later.

73, Stefan

Am 15.04.2019 22:02, schrieb Markus Vester:
Hi Stefan,

> Do you have an idea why the E-W cardioid result is worse than from the E field alone?

Looking at https://vlf.u01.de/VLFgrabber/vlf9.jpg we find that the noise grew much more on the earth loop (top) than on the E-field (bottom). One reason may be that our earth antennas pick up more 50 Hz harmonics - these won't interfere with your QRG directly but may raise the noise blanker threshold and make spherics blanking less effective. We could also speculate about spherics with steep incidence angle, albeit you were more or less in the middle between 1st and 2nd vertical tweek resonances (1.65 and 3.3 kHz). Anyway the SNR ratio between H to E seems to be similar to your receivers.

Of course skywave components may also have a direct effect on your signal but I don't know whether that would have been positive or negative, or in which way to extrapolate downwards. I'm very curious what would come out of a 1.65 kHz transmission during a quiet night.

> Which carrier S/N do you get from the E field?

Decoder output "carrier S/N 24.31 dB in 128.6 uHz" - should be related to carrier Eb/N0 by adding 10 log (ncharacters * 5.7).

Best 73,
Markus

  

-----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Mo, 15. Apr. 2019 10:32
Betreff: Re: ULF: Ground loop night transmission 3.0

Hello Markus, ULF,

Very well. Thanks for your decodes and for sharing the night :-)
Do you have an idea why the E-W cardioid result is worse than from the E field alone?
Which carrier S/N do you get from the E field? I'm getting carrier S/N: 40.62 dB in 128.6 uHz, 1.71 dB in 1Hz
The difference of our carrier Eb/N0 is 16.3 dB. But as Paul mentioned, camparing carrier S/N may be more accurate in that spectrum range.
It could be interesting to compare the SNR difference between our locations over some frequencies. If that value is reasonable constant, in the far field, then we could estimate what we can expect at 970 Hz...
My results from all 3 antennas are still looking good at that frequency:
E field: carrier S/N: 40.62 dB in 128.6 uHz
N-S loop: carrier S/N: 28.38 dB in 128.6 uHz
E-W loop: carrier S/N: 30.47 dB in 128.6 uHz

73, Stefan



Am 15.04.2019 01:33, schrieb Markus Vester:
Hi Stefan,

DL0AO H-field (E-W): Eb/N0 = 2.5 dB(car), 0.7 dB(sym),
DL0AO E-Field: Eb/N0 = 12.0 dB(car), 10.9 dB (sym). 

Our file ended a couple of minutes early with the last 12 symbols missing, causing a slightly high symbol error reading.

73 and good night,
Markus (DF6NM)


-----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Renato Romero <contact@vlf.it>
Verschickt: So, 14. Apr. 2019 23:13
Betreff: Re: ULF: Ground loop night transmission 3.0

Hello ULF friends,

Now i'm sitting in the car again in the deep forest. It is silent (outside!) and the sky is clear. The TX and EbNaut message is now running:

f = 2470.1 Hz
Start time: 14.APR.2019  21:00:00.3 UTC
Symbol period: 9 s
Characters: 3
CRC bits: 16
Coding 16K21A
Antenna current: 2.5 A
Duration: 02:09:36 [hh:mm:ss]

 TX power at the beginning of the transmission is 492 W this time.

73, Stefan



Am 14.04.2019 14:41, schrieb DK7FC:
Hello Dreamers,

Today it feels right again, i'd like to have another exciting adventure...
After the recent successes at 2970 Hz, maybe it is possible to get something through at 2470 Hz? That's the 121 km band. So far, thge distance record at this frequency is over to DL4YHF, QRB ~ 313 km.

I'd like to try the following:

f = 2470.1 Hz
Start time: 14.APR.2019  ab:cd:00.3 UTC
Symbol period: 9 s
Characters: 3
CRC bits: 16
Coding 16K21A
Antenna current: 2.e A
Duration: 02:09:36 [hh:mm:ss]

More details regarding start time and antenna current will follow after the transmission has started.

Reports requested / welcome :-)

73, Stefan
--------------080705030306020701000101--