Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w8AH2DjS026839 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 19:02:16 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1fzPUh-0004FJ-M0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 17:56:59 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1fzPUc-0004FA-1j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 17:56:54 +0100 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1fzPUa-000193-6T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 17:56:52 +0100 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6732E20E18 for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 18:56:51 +0200 (CEST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=posteo.de Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.de; s=2017; t=1536598611; bh=j0F85rpgd1QmKeW9+9pAHyp3ZNz3pdsp5kH4Nqz5AlQ=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From; b=DMzutiOfOTMq0YAxwGO9hhQSivdK/0Ca7MCk2CKAXIjiwv5mxG0p0Vyo7ywBeiQx7 apk+QdKZ5VesLuYbv4/VezS5gpwPwocK7iN0aZ6euU1ehV2z/f/sl1BiaHrvR5Ye7Q WUNWK5220zIHpkzkedk52G6+6ZFU24mi8bLJ7am45S+OFXVak5zWkxyiy8G1JnwKmi JxtAQ81rgyAdpWtERgypx2KgsyE3FUfcDi9bz5aWj85upqwCC2zAPhVZ4StQXVFPGe 9WgpAdljoIfUBcV5e+BJzqbkYw6SYtSZMcAQxEyV7EicAKJbbuBmGn/OEhFHm/fC18 GitYU1sClpTVg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 428DjG63btz6tmH for ; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 18:56:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5B96A252.1010507@posteo.de> Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 18:56:50 +0200 From: DK7FC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6DB8451D7F3D3947A5918808A59621EA08609AB5@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <6DB8451D7F3D3947A5918808A59621EA08609AB5@servigilant.vigilant.local> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Hi Luis, Am 10.09.2018 17:47, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández: > > The fact of getting windows timestamped files which really start at a > > different time and no aparent indication of when they end ….. doesn´t > help at all > Well, the FFT settings must be so that you cover enough width (in Hz) and length (in seconds). The necessary width depends on your symbol length. The length is mentioned in the FFT settings register card (FFT window time). Choose a rectangular window for EbNaut decodes. Convert the txt files into wav using Markus tools. Load the wav file in the EbNaut decoder and press RUN. Then you will see the start time of the file. The end is start time + length. Simple, isn't it? :-) [...] Content analysis details: (-2.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [185.67.36.65 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID BODY: Test for Invalidly Named or Formatted Colors in HTML 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 3156f12094a4030d870e63fdf950ba18 Subject: Re: LF: The return of EbNaut for Dummies Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060701050209030409090002" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060701050209030409090002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Luis, Am 10.09.2018 17:47, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández: > > The fact of getting windows timestamped files which really start at a > > different time and no aparent indication of when they end ….. doesn´t > help at all > Well, the FFT settings must be so that you cover enough width (in Hz) and length (in seconds). The necessary width depends on your symbol length. The length is mentioned in the FFT settings register card (FFT window time). Choose a rectangular window for EbNaut decodes. Convert the txt files into wav using Markus tools. Load the wav file in the EbNaut decoder and press RUN. Then you will see the start time of the file. The end is start time + length. Simple, isn't it? :-) A new txt file is generated in the interval of the scroll time (Spectrum (1) ) register card. Usually 30 minutes is fine, or even 1 hour on VLF. Then you get a file each 30 minutes. If the FFT length is longer than 30 minutes. Your FFT length should be 30 minutes longer than the transmission length, just to avoid an incomplete set of data in a txt file. Choose the FFT width and length to suit your settings. The width is maybe 10 * 1/(symbol length) or more. > Is there any way of “fast” EbNaut when signals are strong ? I think there are no limits, you can run 0.1 second symbol length. But usually it is used for weak signals and stable paths. > > I really don’t know what to test next. > Send me your .usr file and the EbNaut settings you want to try. 73, Stefan > May be to run ebnaut_tx in test mode, which just changes the phase > every symbol length > > And then, analyze the recorded file with a different tool to determine > if this phase changes are there ? Can this be easily done ? > > 73 de Luis > > EA5DOM > > PS: Congratulations for your amazing test with the guard rails. And > yes, this is much much harder than EME ! J > > *De:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *En nombre de *DK7FC > *Enviado el:* viernes, 07 de septiembre de 2018 22:10 > *Para:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Asunto:* Re: LF: EbNaut transmission test in LF > > Hello Luis, > > Another hint: Try to use 4K19A and a shorter message, like EA5 or so. > Use long symbols, like 10 seconds or longer. Then, timing is less > critical and you may get a decode and can tune to the best Eb/N0 and > find out what the timing offset it. It would guess it is a timing problem. > > 73 Stefan > > Am 07.09.2018 13:36, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández: > > Hi Domenico > > Sorry, I’m not transmitting this weekend. Very stormy weather > here, so the wires are down > > I will notice in the reflector any transmission in advance. But > first want to confirm that all is working ok > > So that was the goal of yesterday test > > Yes, the XOR is AFTER the 1/10 divider, and working at the final > frequency 137485 Hz > > Your auto-decoder is a great tool. EbNaut is quite tricky for > average use and needs a lot of details to care about > > Of course the reward is great when you get decodes with miserable > signal levels. There is never free lunch ! ;-) > > 73 de Luis > > EA5DOM > > *De:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *En nombre de > *Domenico IZ7SLZ > *Enviado el:* viernes, 07 de septiembre de 2018 13:18 > *Para:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Asunto:* Re: LF: EbNaut transmission test in LF > > Hello Luis, > > thanks for sharing your experiment. My auto-decoder > https://www.qsl.net/iz7slz/ is already retuned for your > transmissions. > > BTW QRM is large here in the morning time (urban location). I will > try to catch your signal later in the night. > > /At least the decoder is detecting the carrier but may be there is > no proper phase modulation or probably other failures/ > > /What I’m doing wrong ? Can anybody decode the message from the > file ?/ > > I also suspect some issues on modulator circuit. Of course the > XOR gate is following the /10 divider, is it? > > Good luck. > > 73 all, > > Domenico/IZ7SLZ > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2018 at 11:38, VIGILANT Luis Fernández > > wrote: > > Hi LF EbNauters > > I have been building a disciplined Rx for LF, based in a GPS > LO at 120KHz and a NE602 downconverter to 17KHz > > Then feeding the signal to the soundcard, also disciplined > with 1pps from the same GPS > > At Tx side a GPS LO at 1374850 Hz divided by 10 provides 0.1Hz > steps at LF. Then an XOR gate is used for > > EbNaut modulation from the DTR of a COM port under Windows. > The PA is just a mosfet driver (mic4452 AT 12v) > > Just about 100mW to antenna but good enough to get a 20dB S/N > in my Rx 7Km away > > Stability looks pretty good and also phase modulation as seen > in SL spectrogram. Also monitoring phase changes > > with the SL plot display window. So, yesterday I tried an > EbNaut transmission with the following setup > > Coding: 8K19A > > CRC 16 > > Symbol period: 1s > > Characters: 6 Transmission time: 9.3 minutes > > Transmitting at minute 00 and 30 every hour > > I got the FFT files from SL and converted them to WAV files. > The configuration file (SR) included the corrected sample rate > > of the soundcard as well as decimation , FFT length and center > frequency > > Attached is a WAV file starting at 16:22 which should contain > the transmission started at 16:30 untill about 16:40 > > The rawsym graphic shows a clear peak centered in frequency, > but I haven’t been able to get a decode other than “******” > > At least the decoder is detecting the carrier but may be there > is no proper phase modulation or probably other failures > > What I’m doing wrong ? Can anybody decode the message from the > file ? > > BTW, I have used a list length of 47274 and also 141823, but > nill L > > 73 de Luis > > EA5DOM > --------------060701050209030409090002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Luis,

Am 10.09.2018 17:47, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández:

The fact of getting windows timestamped files which really start at a

different time and no aparent indication of when they end ….. doesn´t help at all

Well, the FFT settings must be so that you cover enough width (in Hz) and length (in seconds). The necessary width depends on your symbol length. The length is mentioned in the FFT settings register card (FFT window time). Choose a rectangular window for EbNaut decodes.
Convert the txt files into wav using Markus tools. Load the wav file in the EbNaut decoder and press RUN. Then you will see the start time of the file. The end is start time + length. Simple, isn't it? :-)

A new txt file is generated in the interval of the scroll time (Spectrum (1) ) register card. Usually 30 minutes is fine, or even 1 hour on VLF. Then you get a file each 30 minutes. If the FFT length is longer than 30 minutes. Your FFT length should be 30 minutes longer than the transmission length, just to avoid an incomplete set of data in a txt file.

Choose the FFT width and length to suit your settings. The width is maybe 10 * 1/(symbol length) or more.

Is there any way of “fast” EbNaut when signals are strong ?
I think there are no limits, you can run 0.1 second symbol length. But usually it is used for weak signals and stable paths.

 

I really don’t know what to test next.

Send me your .usr file and the EbNaut settings you want to try.

73, Stefan

May be to run ebnaut_tx in test mode, which just changes the phase every symbol length

And then, analyze the recorded file with a different tool to determine if this phase changes are there ? Can this be easily done ?

 

73 de Luis

EA5DOM

 

PS: Congratulations for your amazing test with the guard rails. And yes, this is much much harder than EME ! J

 

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: viernes, 07 de septiembre de 2018 22:10
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: EbNaut transmission test in LF

 

Hello Luis,

Another hint: Try to use 4K19A and a shorter message, like EA5 or so. Use long symbols, like 10 seconds or longer. Then, timing is less critical and you may get a decode and can tune to the best Eb/N0 and find out what the timing offset it. It would guess it is a timing problem.

73 Stefan

Am 07.09.2018 13:36, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández:

Hi Domenico

 

Sorry, I’m not transmitting this weekend. Very stormy weather here, so the wires are down

I will notice in the reflector any transmission in advance. But first want to confirm that all is working ok

So that was the goal of yesterday test

 

Yes, the XOR is AFTER the 1/10 divider, and working at the final frequency 137485 Hz

 

Your auto-decoder is a great tool. EbNaut is quite tricky for average use and needs a lot of details to care about

Of course the reward is great when you get decodes with miserable signal levels. There is never free lunch ! ;-)

 

73 de Luis

EA5DOM

 

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de Domenico IZ7SLZ
Enviado el: viernes, 07 de septiembre de 2018 13:18
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: EbNaut transmission test in LF

 

Hello Luis,

 

thanks for sharing your experiment. My auto-decoder  https://www.qsl.net/iz7slz/  is already retuned for your transmissions.

 

BTW QRM is large here in the morning time (urban location). I will try to catch your signal later in the night.

 

At least the decoder is detecting the carrier but may be there is no proper phase modulation or probably other failures

What I’m doing wrong ? Can anybody decode the message from the file ?

 

 I also suspect some issues on modulator circuit. Of course the XOR gate is following the /10 divider, is it?

 

Good luck.

 

73 all,

Domenico/IZ7SLZ

 

 

 

On Fri, 7 Sep 2018 at 11:38, VIGILANT Luis Fernández <luis@vigilant.es> wrote:

Hi LF EbNauters

 

I have been building a disciplined Rx for LF, based in a GPS LO at 120KHz and a NE602 downconverter to 17KHz

Then feeding the signal to the soundcard, also disciplined with 1pps from the same GPS

 

At Tx side a GPS LO at 1374850 Hz divided by 10 provides 0.1Hz steps at LF. Then an XOR gate is used for

EbNaut modulation from the DTR of  a COM port under Windows. The PA is just a mosfet driver (mic4452 AT 12v)

Just about 100mW to antenna but good enough to get a 20dB S/N in my Rx 7Km away

 

Stability looks pretty good and also phase modulation as seen in SL spectrogram. Also monitoring phase changes

with the SL plot display window. So, yesterday I tried an EbNaut transmission with the following setup

 

Coding: 8K19A

CRC 16

Symbol period: 1s

Characters: 6          Transmission time: 9.3 minutes

Transmitting at minute 00 and 30 every hour

 

I got the FFT files from SL and converted them to WAV files. The configuration file (SR) included the corrected sample rate

of the soundcard as well as decimation , FFT length and center frequency

 

Attached is a WAV file starting at 16:22 which should contain the transmission started at 16:30 untill about 16:40

 

The rawsym graphic shows a clear peak centered in frequency, but I haven’t been able to get a decode other than “******”

At least the decoder is detecting the carrier but may be there is no proper phase modulation or probably other failures

What I’m doing wrong ? Can anybody decode the message from the file ?

BTW, I have used a list length of 47274 and also 141823, but nill L

 

73 de Luis

EA5DOM

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