Message-ID: <5B59E687.5030805@posteo.de>
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 17:19:35 +0200
From: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>
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To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
References: <CA+GfORvAA10STf3zWSQ-dRFwk5BBS25Ht0x8cDZ3cYTa09dYbw@mail.gmail.com> <5B54CCCB.6060903@posteo.de>
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Subject: Re: VLF: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!??
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...i just searched in the old emails and also on G3XBM's blog and found 
this entry: 
https://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/2010/09/vlf-dx-transmission-with-earth.html
So that is the best distance on a transmit earth antenna (or ground 
loop) so far, at VLF, by amateurs.
I had a much lower earth resistance in mind but actually i just got 0.53 
A at 250 W RF power, so the losses were rather 890 Ohm!
Will it be possible to make 55 km distance at 8.27 kHz, maybe in a lower 
bandwidth like 424 uHz, with power levels in the range of 50 W only?

73, Stefan

Am 22.07.2018 20:28, schrieb DK7FC:
> Hi all,
>
> During the weekend i am in the Pfälzer Wald again which is such a nice 
> place to be! I already installed a fixed E field antenna for VLF/ULF 
> reception in JN39XI06 <http://k7fry.com/grid/?qth=JN39XI06>:-)
>
> Now i have the idea to use a guide rail (attachment!) as an electrode 
> for a earth electrode antenna! There is a perfect road which is not 
> much frequented and where no way is crossing so i could temporary 
> install a long wire on the ground between two of these guide rails. I 
> would assume they provide a good grounding. They are located on a 
> relatively high hill/mountain with stony ground. The mountain is very 
> steep there and in some distance, 200m deeper, there is a brook..
>
> With some luck the ground losses can be near 200 Ohm? Maybe rather 300 
> Ohm. I'm going to prepare things and plan to transmit for some time 
> next weekend. If the ground loop actually acts like a loop, the 
> bearing should be 135 deg, so it will be in a 45 deg angle towards my 
> QTH where my grabber is listening in 55 km distance. That's quite a 
> good distance for testing! I'd like to try LF and VLF, maybe ULF it 
> all works well.
>
> A BTW the wire length will be 860 m! However there are two guide rails 
> in a shorther distance, about 450 m. I will try the shorter length 
> first, to get an impression of the loss resistance and to see if 
> something is visible at all :-)
>
> 73, Stefan

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...i just searched in the old emails and also on G3XBM's blog and found
this entry:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/2010/09/vlf-dx-transmission-with-earth.html">https://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/2010/09/vlf-dx-transmission-with-earth.html</a><br>
So that is the best distance on a transmit earth antenna (or ground
loop) so far, at VLF, by amateurs. <br>
I had a much lower earth resistance in mind but actually i just got
0.53 A at 250 W RF power, so the losses were rather 890 Ohm!<br>
Will it be possible to make 55 km distance at 8.27 kHz, maybe in a
lower bandwidth like 424 uHz, with power levels in the range of 50 W
only?<br>
<br>
73, Stefan<br>
<br>
Am 22.07.2018 20:28, schrieb DK7FC:
<blockquote cite="mid:5B54CCCB.6060903@posteo.de" type="cite">
  <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Hi all, <br>
  <br>
During the weekend i am in the Pfälzer Wald again which is such a nice
place to be! I already installed a fixed E field antenna for VLF/ULF
reception in <a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="http://k7fry.com/grid/?qth=JN39XI06">JN39XI06 </a>:-)<br>
  <br>
Now i have the idea to use a guide rail (attachment!) as an electrode
for a earth electrode antenna! There is a perfect road which is not
much frequented and where no way is crossing so i could temporary
install a long wire on the ground between two of these guide rails. I
would assume they provide a good grounding. They are located on a
relatively high hill/mountain with stony ground. The mountain is very
steep there and in some distance, 200m deeper, there is a brook..<br>
  <br>
With some luck the ground losses can be near 200 Ohm? Maybe rather 300
Ohm. I'm going to prepare things and plan to transmit for some time
next weekend. If the ground loop actually acts like a loop, the bearing
should be 135 deg, so it will be in a 45 deg angle towards my QTH where
my grabber is listening in 55 km distance. That's quite a good distance
for testing! I'd like to try LF and VLF, maybe ULF it all works well.<br>
  <br>
A BTW the wire length will be 860 m! However there are two guide rails
in a shorther distance, about 450 m. I will try the shorter length
first, to get an impression of the loss resistance and to see if
something is visible at all :-)<br>
  <br>
73, Stefan<br>
</blockquote>
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