Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by klubnl.pl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w6NLOq2i002175 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 23:24:55 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1fhiEK-0003Aj-9y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:18:56 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1fhiDw-0003AY-KN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:18:32 +0100 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91_59-0488984) (envelope-from ) id 1fhiDt-0006LV-BC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 22:18:30 +0100 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB1A320E73 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 23:18:27 +0200 (CEST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=posteo.de Result=Signature OK DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.de; s=2017; t=1532380707; bh=xFP3u8zcackNinI9pd4K+7nUYjOe4qI5BdAXD6k6yUI=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From; b=TUuU7v1c8MJANlma2Ts4hnd0+SJh8ZmpYLIDJWYnXnCFMT7TQaGdgqiBO500qtrkn OgFRIeJ9ROBijpSFdOckC3FqGt7hgzMIFiFfbiblc7gBGz1i0BVt+6FVgRB9plyP/3 mSTO3BYYhMvlUBkEertjg0s4Urt79zN5gjMe1fJim71Es+u7oyqnZoNvwIckkityUt awb4HBAUXUdpbIhbOjBuyVihaGSDcTYfr6/F4OgT5P5MVWXYDESoyWq9ptocxZ14os C6hRXgcVjpr00lBt6ErMA6StG7oU1iFmYoYASTA88BnwXF41kwlDt6p57oQGzcEINJ AKOaLE2LNdJSw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 41ZDql27Y3z6tmC for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 23:18:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5B564621.2080104@posteo.de> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 23:18:25 +0200 From: DK7FC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5B54CCCB.6060903@posteo.de> <015a01d422bb$636e0390$2a4a0ab0$@go2.pl> In-Reply-To: <015a01d422bb$636e0390$2a4a0ab0$@go2.pl> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Hello Marcin, Oh, from LA3EQ, we know that man, at least from the LF/MF WSPR database. If i remember correctly he has been here ion the list some years ago. Listening from an antenna which is so close to the road? Should sound funny. But i've been a bit disappointed, he just connected the coax between two very close disconnected parts of the guard rail. First i thought he installed an isolated (!) wire of 8 km length. These two segemnts should form a very small ground loop only. Of course it will generate some signal voltage. The Alphas were visible too. But what about ZEVS and the Schumann's, if he's talking about 10 Hz? [...] Content analysis details: (-2.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [185.67.36.65 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID BODY: Test for Invalidly Named or Formatted Colors in HTML 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.3 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 070d9ab39265047b7fb462cd62854f10 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!?? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090106090800020802050000" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, PLING_QUERY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090106090800020802050000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Marcin, Oh, from LA3EQ, we know that man, at least from the LF/MF WSPR database. If i remember correctly he has been here ion the list some years ago. Listening from an antenna which is so close to the road? Should sound funny. But i've been a bit disappointed, he just connected the coax between two very close disconnected parts of the guard rail. First i thought he installed an isolated (!) wire of 8 km length. These two segemnts should form a very small ground loop only. Of course it will generate some signal voltage. The Alphas were visible too. But what about ZEVS and the Schumann's, if he's talking about 10 Hz? Meanwhile i thought a bit more about the preparations. I think i'm going to use that 0.4 mm diameter enameled cu wire that i have laying arround here, about 2000m is available from the unwound part of the 2.97 kHz coil. For the first test on the 450m distant guide rails this should work reasonably. The DC resistance will be about 65 Ohm which could be a significant part of the overall loss, hopefully :-) But then i'll have an impression of the earth electrodes resistance. So i need to prepare a GPS locked signal generator and PA and a suitable output transformer providing something between 50...350V at 8.27 kHz... 73, Stefan Am 23.07.2018 21:28, schrieb Marcin: > > Hello Stefan > A very interesting idea for an experiment. > Looking at the video below should get good results. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWsdaSmWg7E > > 73! Marcin SQ2BXI > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *On Behalf Of *DK7FC > *Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2018 8:28 PM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* VLF: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!?? > > Hi all, > > During the weekend i am in the Pfälzer Wald again which is such a nice > place to be! I already installed a fixed E field antenna for VLF/ULF > reception in JN39XI06 :-) > > Now i have the idea to use a guide rail (attachment!) as an electrode > for a earth electrode antenna! There is a perfect road which is not > much frequented and where no way is crossing so i could temporary > install a long wire on the ground between two of these guide rails. I > would assume they provide a good grounding. They are located on a > relatively high hill/mountain with stony ground. The mountain is very > steep there and in some distance, 200m deeper, there is a brook.. > > With some luck the ground losses can be near 200 Ohm? Maybe rather 300 > Ohm. I'm going to prepare things and plan to transmit for some time > next weekend. If the ground loop actually acts like a loop, the > bearing should be 135 deg, so it will be in a 45 deg angle towards my > QTH where my grabber is listening in 55 km distance. That's quite a > good distance for testing! I'd like to try LF and VLF, maybe ULF it > all works well. > > A BTW the wire length will be 860 m! However there are two guide rails > in a shorther distance, about 450 m. I will try the shorter length > first, to get an impression of the loss resistance and to see if > something is visible at all :-) > > 73, Stefan > --------------090106090800020802050000 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Marcin,

Oh, from LA3EQ, we know that man, at least from the LF/MF WSPR database. If i remember correctly he has been here ion the list some years ago.

Listening from an antenna which is so close to the road? Should sound funny.
But i've been a bit disappointed, he just connected the coax between two very close disconnected parts of the guard rail. First i thought he installed an isolated (!) wire of 8 km length. These two segemnts should form a very small ground loop only. Of course it will generate some signal voltage. The Alphas were visible too. But what about ZEVS and the Schumann's, if he's talking about 10 Hz?

Meanwhile i thought a bit more about the preparations. I think i'm going to use that 0.4 mm diameter enameled cu wire that i have laying arround here, about 2000m is available from the unwound part of the 2.97 kHz coil. For the first test on the 450m distant guide rails this should work reasonably. The DC resistance will be about 65 Ohm which could be a significant part of the overall loss, hopefully :-) But then i'll have an impression of the earth electrodes resistance.
So i need to prepare a GPS locked signal generator and PA and a suitable output transformer providing something between 50...350V at 8.27 kHz...

73, Stefan


Am 23.07.2018 21:28, schrieb Marcin:

Hello Stefan
A very interesting idea for an experiment.
Looking at the video below should get good results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWsdaSmWg7E

73! Marcin SQ2BXI

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> On Behalf Of DK7FC
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 8:28 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: VLF: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!??

 

Hi all,

During the weekend i am in the Pfälzer Wald again which is such a nice place to be! I already installed a fixed E field antenna for VLF/ULF reception in JN39XI06 :-)

Now i have the idea to use a guide rail (attachment!) as an electrode for a earth electrode antenna! There is a perfect road which is not much frequented and where no way is crossing so i could temporary install a long wire on the ground between two of these guide rails. I would assume they provide a good grounding. They are located on a relatively high hill/mountain with stony ground. The mountain is very steep there and in some distance, 200m deeper, there is a brook..

With some luck the ground losses can be near 200 Ohm? Maybe rather 300 Ohm. I'm going to prepare things and plan to transmit for some time next weekend. If the ground loop actually acts like a loop, the bearing should be 135 deg, so it will be in a 45 deg angle towards my QTH where my grabber is listening in 55 km distance. That's quite a good distance for testing! I'd like to try LF and VLF, maybe ULF it all works well.

A BTW the wire length will be 860 m! However there are two guide rails in a shorther distance, about 450 m. I will try the shorter length first, to get an impression of the loss resistance and to see if something is visible at all :-)

73, Stefan

--------------090106090800020802050000--