Message-ID: <5B564621.2080104@posteo.de>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 23:18:25 +0200
From: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>
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References: <CA+GfORvAA10STf3zWSQ-dRFwk5BBS25Ht0x8cDZ3cYTa09dYbw@mail.gmail.com> <5B54CCCB.6060903@posteo.de> <015a01d422bb$636e0390$2a4a0ab0$@go2.pl>
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Subject: Re: LF: RE: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!??
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Hello Marcin,

Oh, from LA3EQ, we know that man, at least from the LF/MF WSPR database. 
If i remember correctly he has been here ion the list some years ago.

Listening from an antenna which is so close to the road? Should sound funny.
But i've been a bit disappointed, he just connected the coax between two 
very close disconnected parts of the guard rail. First i thought he 
installed an isolated (!) wire of 8 km length. These two segemnts should 
form a very small ground loop only. Of course it will generate some 
signal voltage. The Alphas were visible too. But what about ZEVS and the 
Schumann's, if he's talking about 10 Hz?

Meanwhile i thought a bit more about the preparations. I think i'm going 
to use that 0.4 mm diameter enameled cu wire that i have laying arround 
here, about 2000m is available from the unwound part of the 2.97 kHz 
coil. For the first test on the 450m distant guide rails this should 
work reasonably. The DC resistance will be about 65 Ohm which could be a 
significant part of the overall loss, hopefully :-) But then i'll have 
an impression of the earth electrodes resistance.
So i need to prepare a GPS locked signal generator and PA and a suitable 
output transformer providing something between 50...350V at 8.27 kHz...

73, Stefan


Am 23.07.2018 21:28, schrieb Marcin:
>
> Hello Stefan
> A very interesting idea for an experiment.
> Looking at the video below should get good results.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWsdaSmWg7E
>
> 73! Marcin SQ2BXI
>
> *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org 
> <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> *On Behalf Of *DK7FC
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 22, 2018 8:28 PM
> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> *Subject:* VLF: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!??
>
> Hi all,
>
> During the weekend i am in the PfĂ¤lzer Wald again which is such a nice 
> place to be! I already installed a fixed E field antenna for VLF/ULF 
> reception in JN39XI06 <http://k7fry.com/grid/?qth=JN39XI06>:-)
>
> Now i have the idea to use a guide rail (attachment!) as an electrode 
> for a earth electrode antenna! There is a perfect road which is not 
> much frequented and where no way is crossing so i could temporary 
> install a long wire on the ground between two of these guide rails. I 
> would assume they provide a good grounding. They are located on a 
> relatively high hill/mountain with stony ground. The mountain is very 
> steep there and in some distance, 200m deeper, there is a brook..
>
> With some luck the ground losses can be near 200 Ohm? Maybe rather 300 
> Ohm. I'm going to prepare things and plan to transmit for some time 
> next weekend. If the ground loop actually acts like a loop, the 
> bearing should be 135 deg, so it will be in a 45 deg angle towards my 
> QTH where my grabber is listening in 55 km distance. That's quite a 
> good distance for testing! I'd like to try LF and VLF, maybe ULF it 
> all works well.
>
> A BTW the wire length will be 860 m! However there are two guide rails 
> in a shorther distance, about 450 m. I will try the shorter length 
> first, to get an impression of the loss resistance and to see if 
> something is visible at all :-)
>
> 73, Stefan
>

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Hello Marcin, <br>
<br>
Oh, from LA3EQ, we know that man, at least from the LF/MF WSPR
database. If i remember correctly he has been here ion the list some
years ago.<br>
<br>
Listening from an antenna which is so close to the road? Should sound
funny.<br>
But i've been a bit disappointed, he just connected the coax between
two very close disconnected parts of the guard rail. First i thought he
installed an isolated (!) wire of 8 km length. These two segemnts
should form a very small ground loop only. Of course it will generate
some signal voltage. The Alphas were visible too. But what about ZEVS
and the Schumann's, if he's talking about 10 Hz?<br>
<br>
Meanwhile i thought a bit more about the preparations. I think i'm
going to use that 0.4 mm diameter enameled cu wire that i have laying
arround here, about 2000m is available from the unwound part of the
2.97 kHz coil. For the first test on the 450m distant guide rails this
should work reasonably. The DC resistance will be about 65 Ohm which
could be a significant part of the overall loss, hopefully :-) But then
i'll have an impression of the earth electrodes resistance.<br>
So i need to prepare a GPS locked signal generator and PA and a
suitable output transformer providing something between 50...350V at
8.27 kHz...<br>
<br>
73, Stefan<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 23.07.2018 21:28, schrieb Marcin:
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  <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN">Hello Stefan<br>
A very interesting idea for an experiment.<br>
Looking at the video below should get good results.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: windowtext;" lang="EN-GB"><a
 moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWsdaSmWg7E">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWsdaSmWg7E</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: windowtext;" lang="EN-GB">73!
Marcin SQ2BXI<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: windowtext;" lang="EN-GB"><o:p>Â </o:p></span></p>
  <div>
  <div
 style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
 style="color: windowtext;"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">&lt;owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org&gt;</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>DK7FC<br>
  <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 22, 2018 8:28 PM<br>
  <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</a><br>
  <b>Subject:</b> VLF: Earth antenna transmissions on a guide rail?!??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
  </div>
  </div>
  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>Â </o:p></p>
  <p class="MsoNormal">Hi all, <br>
  <br>
During the weekend i am in the PfĂ¤lzer Wald again which is such a nice
place to be! I already installed a fixed E field antenna for VLF/ULF
reception in <a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="http://k7fry.com/grid/?qth=JN39XI06">JN39XI06 </a>:-)<br>
  <br>
Now i have the idea to use a guide rail (attachment!) as an electrode
for a earth electrode antenna! There is a perfect road which is not
much frequented and where no way is crossing so i could temporary
install a long wire on the ground between two of these guide rails. I
would assume they provide a good grounding. They are located on a
relatively high hill/mountain with stony ground. The mountain is very
steep there and in some distance, 200m deeper, there is a brook..<br>
  <br>
With some luck the ground losses can be near 200 Ohm? Maybe rather 300
Ohm. I'm going to prepare things and plan to transmit for some time
next weekend. If the ground loop actually acts like a loop, the bearing
should be 135 deg, so it will be in a 45 deg angle towards my QTH where
my grabber is listening in 55 km distance. That's quite a good distance
for testing! I'd like to try LF and VLF, maybe ULF it all works well.<br>
  <br>
A BTW the wire length will be 860 m! However there are two guide rails
in a shorther distance, about 450 m. I will try the shorter length
first, to get an impression of the loss resistance and to see if
something is visible at all :-)<br>
  <br>
73, Stefan<o:p></o:p></p>
  </div>
</blockquote>
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