Message-ID: <5A45288F.50401@posteo.de>
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:23:27 +0100
From: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>
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Subject: Re: LF: 8269.9 kHz EbNaut 27/12/17
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Hi Markus,

I would agree. The decoder will not put out the correct message just 
because the man sitting in front of the computer already knows the message.
It is like in WSPR: You won't receive/decode a transmitting station with 
a higher probability just because you know it is active and know the 
data (call, loc, dBm). All you can do to obtain a valid decode is 
applying known data, which means here: Tuning to the right frequency, 
keeping your PC time accurate and selecting the right mode. And maybe 
applying an individual noise blanker...
We are doing nothing more in EbNaut. There are just more parameters 
since it is a very flexible mode...

73, Stefan

Am 28.12.2017 18:10, schrieb Markus Vester:
> Hi Dex,
>
> correlation processing is relatively cheap, so no harm done ;-)
>
> > No stacking allowed when message is known.
>
> I politely disagree. A decode made after stacking blindly with 
> constant phase and weights (or weights derived solely from noise 
> level) hasn't made use of a priori information of the correct 
> result. Correlations are ok, but their output should not be used to 
> tweak the phases before stacking. As Paul mentioned earlier, stacking 
> a large enough number of tweaked-phase data sets will eventually 
> produce any desired decode from pure noise.
>
> Best 73,
> Markus
>
> iche Mitteilung-----
> Von: Dexter McIntyre W4DEX <dexter.mc@gmail.com>
> An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Verschickt: Do, 28. Dez 2017 14:32
> Betreff: Re: LF: 8269.9 kHz EbNaut 27/12/17
>
> The message was changed.  No stacking allowed when message is known :)
>
> Sorry for the confusion and wasted processor time.
>
> Will repeat tonight WX premitting.
>
> Dex
>
> On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Dexter McIntyre W4DEX 
> <dexter.mc@gmail.com <mailto:dexter.mc@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     New message tonight
>
>     3 chars 16K21A CRC20
>     30 second symbols
>     Start 22:30 UT
>
>     Dex
>
>
>
> -- 
> "Remember what the dormouse said......."

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Hi Markus, <br>
<br>
I would agree. The decoder will not put out the correct message just
because the man sitting in front of the computer already knows the
message. <br>
It is like in WSPR: You won't receive/decode a transmitting station
with a higher probability just because you know it is active and know
the data (call, loc, dBm). All you can do to obtain a valid decode is
applying known data, which means here: Tuning to the right frequency,
keeping your PC time accurate and selecting the right mode. And maybe
applying an individual noise blanker...<br>
We are doing nothing more in EbNaut. There are just more parameters
since it is a very flexible mode...<br>
<br>
73, Stefan<br>
<br>
Am 28.12.2017 18:10, schrieb Markus Vester:
<blockquote
 cite="mid:1609e1a87d5-57b4-137cc@webjas-vaa011.srv.aolmail.net"
 type="cite">
  <div
 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: black;">
  <div
 style="color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Hi
Dex,<br>
  <br>
correlation processing is relatively cheap, so no harm done ;-)<br>
  <br>
&gt; No stacking allowed when message is known.<br>
  <br>
I politely disagree. A decode made after stacking blindly with constant
phase and weights (or weights derived solely from noise level) hasn't
made use of a priori information of the correct
result. Correlations are ok, but their output should not be used to
tweak the phases before stacking. As Paul mentioned earlier, stacking a
large enough number of tweaked-phase data sets will eventually produce
any desired decode from pure noise. <br>
  <br>
Best 73,<br>
Markus<br>
  <br>
iche Mitteilung----- <br>
Von: Dexter McIntyre W4DEX <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dexter.mc@gmail.com">&lt;dexter.mc@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
An: rsgb_lf_group <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">&lt;rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org&gt;</a><br>
Verschickt: Do, 28. Dez 2017 14:32<br>
Betreff: Re: LF: 8269.9 kHz EbNaut 27/12/17<br>
  <br>
  </div>
  <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_e6cc6e01-2ac7-49c0-bb1b-5aedcd1f3fad">
  <div class="aolReplacedBody">
  <div dir="ltr">The message was changed.  No stacking allowed when
message is known :)  
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>Sorry for the confusion and wasted processor time.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>Will repeat tonight WX premitting.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>Dex</div>
  </div>
  <div class="aolmail_gmail_extra"><br>
  <div class="aolmail_gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 4:29 PM,
Dexter McIntyre W4DEX <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="mailto:dexter.mc@gmail.com" target="_blank"
 rel="noopener noreferrer">dexter.mc@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
  <blockquote class="aolmail_gmail_quote"
 style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
    <div dir="ltr">New message tonight
    <div><br>
    </div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">3 chars 16K21A CRC20</span><br
 style="font-size: 12.8px;">
    <span style="font-size: 12.8px;">30 second symbols</span><br
 style="font-size: 12.8px;">
    <span style="font-size: 12.8px;">Start 22:30 UT</span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"><br>
    </span></div>
    <div><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">Dex<br clear="all">
    </span>
    <div><br>
    </div>
    </div>
    </div>
  </blockquote>
  </div>
  <br>
  <br clear="all">
  <div>-- <br>
  </div>
  <div class="aolmail_gmail_signature">
  <div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">"Remember what the
dormouse said......."</span><br>
  </div>
  </div>
  </div>
  </div>
  </div>
  </div>
</blockquote>
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