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Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 20:23:42 +0100
From: DK7FC <selberdenken@posteo.de>
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References: <4273a2ab-787c-d909-e7d0-d21db21ba18c@n1bug.com> <59EF0EDB.15093.422D52F1@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <59F05705.5020008@posteo.de> <59F1ADF3.16016.4C6AD4F6@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <f3fa3220-4199-4cd6-e26d-5a41cb5944e4@n1bug.com> <1876468406.20171026114235@gmail.com> <0b90c746-382d-b54e-6c77-c73f555a21b3@n1bug.com> <CAC+C6w71TwY3tANfyq35maRktAoJj-Xfpt6O71wK_bPBH8GG0g@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: LF: Monitoring 2190m WSPR
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Hello Domenico,

Very interesting and a good work, my compliments!
I often had the wish to have more options for the WSPR uploads. For 
example i'm running 2 instances on MF from the two loops on the tree 
(nw/se and ne/sw). Mostly there are two uploads from DK7FC/P for a 
single station from both loops. I would like to upload only the decode 
with the highest SNR. This should be possible with a script in Linux.

Also i saw that a noise blanker can improve the decode performance 
significantly on LF. Of course we expect this but many people seem to 
belive that it is already all inside the software. It isn't! And WSPR is 
probably not optimised for LF/MF.
However using a NB can cause multiple decodes from strong signals (!!!) 
Thus i usually don't use a NB since i'm in the center of EU activity 
here and have to deal with many strong signals.
For you it is probably not so dramatic since you are quite far away from 
most strong stations.
Did you try to optimise the vtblank parameters?
Maybe it is possible to measure the strength of the noise (in a 1 kHz 
BW, 1 min moving average for example) and dynamically change the vtblank 
parameters?
A great tool!
There are so many playing fields to operate on. You are working there. 
It is nice to see so many different places where things can be worked 
out here below 500 kHz...

Since i have a Linux PC and my MF vorbis stream from the tree, i could 
use your tools to realise the above functions. But i have no time 
unfortunately. To many open projects. But maybe in some time :-)

Tnx es 73, Stefan


Am 28.10.2017 02:21, schrieb Domenico IZ7SLZ:
> Hi, LF
>
> On 10/26/2017, Paul N1BUG wrote:
>
>
>     It seems WSPR-X is "conditionally stable". We had a fair bit of
>     discussion about it on this side of the pond last winter. It works
>     for some, but for others it doesn't. For me it stops doing
>     anything after a few minutes and just idly sits there. I am not
>     alone. There are others with the same issue and some for whom the
>     program silently self terminates at seemingly random intervals. In
>     my case it's on Windows 10 64 bit. I suppose there are too few of
>     us interested in WSPR-15 to carry any weight with the developers. :-( 
>
>
> I want to share the results of an experimental whisper decoder running 
> now at IZ7SLZ, maybe someone is interested:
>
> since some weeks i'm testing the linux version of WSJT-X. It does not 
> manage the wspr-15 mode but its internal  decoding program 'wsprd' 
> does. So i wrote a shell routine which,  by using some linux commands 
> and programs from the vlfrx-tools package (thanks to Paul Nicholson) , 
> is able to use  'wsprd'  without running WSJT-X program but only with 
> the shell 'autowsprlf' (attached).
>
> The result is a nice and stable decoder for wspr-15 and wspr-2 (at the 
> same time) processing the audio coming from my LF receiver tuned on 
> USB dial 136.000 kHz. In the attached screen-shot you can see of the 
> program running. Furthermore, thanks to the excellent noise blanker 
> P.N.'s program 'vtblank', it seems to be more sensitive compared with 
> the wspr-x program running on the same audio. I have always reported 
> 2-3 dB more in S/N ratio, and get more decodes.
> In the shell file i'm using the program 'curl' to upload the received 
> spot on the wsprnet.org <http://wsprnet.org> site.
>
> These are the spots so far received with this setup : 
> http://qsl.net/iz7slz/OPDS/ALL_WSPR.TXT  (sorry if the list is 
> upside-down ordered). Note that some LF spots are wspr-15 signals 
> (i.e. 171027 2300   2 -35 -0.32   0.1376102  G8HUH IO81 20 ... thanks 
> to G8HUH for transmitting this rare signal !)
>
> I will be happy if some operator wants to test the program. It is a 
> little bit messed, specially in the timeslot string generation, so any 
> helps and comments for improving it are welcome.
>
> All you need is a pc with linux (Ubuntu 14.04LTS works fine here) with 
> 'autowsprlf' and following vlfrx-tools stuffs running in background:
>
> - vtcard (to manage the audio card)
> - vtresample (for 12000 samples/s audio required by wsprd)
> - vtwrite (to record on the hard drive the raw audio)
>
> other programs are running here, but i think they are not necessary 
> for wspr mode:
>
> - gpsd  for getting the precise time from my Jupiter GPS connected at  
> COM1 (1pps and binary protocol);
> - ntpd (configured only for the gpsd daemon not for other ntp servers)
> - vttime - for the audio calibration and time-stamping
>
> Other routines are running on same Ubuntu PC for my auto-EbNaut 
> decoder and for sending audio stream to another Windows's pc where is 
> running SL and DF6NM's opds,..but this is another story.
>
> I'm at disposal for any helps on the configuration of this setup.
>
> 73 all, Domenico / IZ7SLZ
>
>
>
> On 26 October 2017 at 17:48, N1BUG <paul@n1bug.com 
> <mailto:paul@n1bug.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hello Chris,
>
>     It seems WSPR-X is "conditionally stable". We had a fair bit of
>     discussion about it on this side of the pond last winter. It works
>     for some, but for others it doesn't. For me it stops doing
>     anything after a few minutes and just idly sits there. I am not
>     alone. There are others with the same issue and some for whom the
>     program silently self terminates at seemingly random intervals. In
>     my case it's on Windows 10 64 bit. I suppose there are too few of
>     us interested in WSPR-15 to carry any weight with the developers. :-(
>
>     I run into the shack every few minutes in my evenings to see if
>     I've heard 2E0ILY yet! Eventually I go to sleep but the first
>     thing I do in the morning is check to see if I've heard 2E0ILY
>     overnight! (or anyone else across the pond)
>
>     The new tower is complete now. I feel the need to resurrect or
>     replace the missing 80/40/30 meter antennas before I build the
>     LF/MF transmitting antenna, but I am getting closer. I regret that
>     my power will probably be too low to be heard on your side. The
>     only good thing about it is I probably won't be setting many
>     things alight. :-D
>
>     73,
>     Paul N1BUG WI2XTC
>
>
>     On 10/26/2017 06:42 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:
>
>         Hello Paul,
>
>         I am surprised you have had issues with WSPR-X and WSPR15 I often
>         forget I have it running in tandem with WSPR2 on WSJT-X and it is
>         still sound and solid after a few days. PC is Windows 7 pro 64
>         bit.
>         But it was also fine on Windows XP which I still run on
>         another PC and
>         on a laptop. The developers were very none receptive to adding
>         WSPR15
>         to WSJT-X :( I keep trying to get over to Maine most nights, but
>         conditions  or  Lady Luck have not obliged so far. There don't
>         seem to
>         be  THAT  many  more  US stations on LF after the licence
>         change, I was
>         expecting  far  more  to  be  honest.  Good  luck  Paul, don't
>         let Mr.
>         Beveredge down :)
>
>
>         Thursday, October 26, 2017, 11:23:31 AM, you wrote:
>
>             I wish it were possible to have more WSPR-15 activity on
>             LF. It
>             seems like a very promising mode and would be much more
>             interesting
>             to me than Op32. Unfortunately for many of us the old WSPR-X
>             software needed to decode it is too unstable to run
>             unattended.
>             Unless there are MANY requests to the developers that
>             WSPR-15 be
>             included in the stable WSJT-X software, I am afraid we
>             have seen the
>             death of this sub-mode. If I could have a stable WSPR-15
>             decoder I
>             would definitely monitor that mode alongside WSPR-2.
>
>
>             I'm struggling with my U3S assembly. All went well until I
>             got to
>             the coils in the LF and MF low pass filters. Those are
>             giving me
>             fits. The supplied wire came with many pre-installed sharp
>             kinks,
>             plus I seem to have no skill whatsoever at this "scramble
>             winding"
>             to get the required turns on the cores. I'm waiting now
>             for a new
>             spool of wire to arrive before I try again. I've thought about
>             substituting a different core to allow a single layer
>             winding. A
>             FT-37-61 would be lovely with 31 turns on LF. However I
>             fear the Q
>             would be too low and losses high. Best to stick with what
>             is proven,
>             if I can only learn to wind the devils!
>
>
>             I have the GPS with my U3S and also the OCXO (which I plan to
>             assemble later, after getting everything working with the
>             standard
>             synthesizer).
>
>
>             73,
>             Paul N1BUG
>
>
>

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Hello Domenico, <br>
<br>
Very interesting and a good work, my compliments!<br>
I often had the wish to have more options for the WSPR uploads. For
example i'm running 2 instances on MF from the two loops on the tree
(nw/se and ne/sw). Mostly there are two uploads from DK7FC/P for a
single station from both loops. I would like to upload only the decode
with the highest SNR. This should be possible with a script in Linux. <br>
<br>
Also i saw that a noise blanker can improve the decode performance
significantly on LF. Of course we expect this but many people seem to
belive that it is already all inside the software. It isn't! And WSPR
is probably not optimised for LF/MF.<br>
However using a NB can cause multiple decodes from strong signals (!!!)
Thus i usually don't use a NB since i'm in the center of EU activity
here and have to deal with many strong signals.<br>
For you it is probably not so dramatic since you are quite far away
from most strong stations.<br>
Did you try to optimise the vtblank parameters? <br>
Maybe it is possible to measure the strength of the noise (in a 1 kHz
BW, 1 min moving average for example) and dynamically change the
vtblank parameters?<br>
A great tool! <br>
There are so many playing fields to operate on. You are working there.
It is nice to see so many different places where things can be worked
out here below 500 kHz...<br>
<br>
Since i have a Linux PC and my MF vorbis stream from the tree, i could
use your tools to realise the above functions. But i have no time
unfortunately. To many open projects. But maybe in some time :-)<br>
<br>
Tnx es 73, Stefan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 28.10.2017 02:21, schrieb Domenico IZ7SLZ:
<blockquote
 cite="mid:CAC+C6w71TwY3tANfyq35maRktAoJj-Xfpt6O71wK_bPBH8GG0g@mail.gmail.com"
 type="cite">
  <div dir="ltr">
  <div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <div>
  <div>Hi, LF<br>
  <br>
On 10/26/2017, Paul N1BUG wrote:<br>
  <br>
  <br>
  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
 style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
It seems WSPR-X is "conditionally stable". We had a fair bit of
discussion about it on this side of the pond last winter. It works for
some, but for others it doesn't. For me it stops doing anything after a
few minutes and just idly sits there. I am not alone. There are others
with the same issue and some for whom the program silently self
terminates at seemingly random intervals. In my case it's on Windows 10
64 bit. I suppose there are too few of us interested in WSPR-15 to
carry any weight with the developers. :-(
  </blockquote>
  </div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>I want to share the results of an experimental whisper decoder
running now at IZ7SLZ, maybe someone is interested:  <br>
  </div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
since some weeks i'm testing the linux version of WSJT-X. It does not
manage the wspr-15 mode but its internal  decoding program 'wsprd'
does. So i wrote a shell routine which,  by using some linux commands
and programs from the vlfrx-tools package (thanks to Paul Nicholson) ,
is able to use  'wsprd'  without running WSJT-X program but only with
the shell 'autowsprlf' (attached).<br>
  <br>
  </div>
The result is a nice and stable decoder for wspr-15 and wspr-2 (at the
same time) processing the audio coming from my LF receiver tuned on USB
dial 136.000 kHz. In the attached screen-shot you can see of the
program running. Furthermore, thanks to the excellent noise blanker
P.N.'s program 'vtblank', it seems to be more sensitive compared with
the wspr-x program running on the same audio. I have always reported
2-3 dB more in S/N ratio, and get more decodes.<br>
  </div>
  <div>In the shell file i'm using the program 'curl' to upload the
received spot on the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="http://wsprnet.org">wsprnet.org</a> site.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>These are the spots so far received with this setup : <a
 moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://qsl.net/iz7slz/OPDS/ALL_WSPR.TXT">http://qsl.net/iz7slz/OPDS/ALL_WSPR.TXT</a> 
(sorry if the list is upside-down ordered). Note that some LF spots are
wspr-15 signals (i.e. 171027 2300   2 -35 -0.32   0.1376102  G8HUH IO81
20 ... thanks to G8HUH for transmitting this rare signal !)<br>
  </div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>I will be happy if some operator wants to test the program. It
is a little bit messed, specially in the timeslot string generation, so
any helps and comments for improving it are welcome.<br>
  </div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
All you need is a pc with linux (Ubuntu 14.04LTS works fine here) with
'autowsprlf' and following vlfrx-tools stuffs running in background:</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
- vtcard (to manage the audio card)<br>
  </div>
  </div>
- vtresample (for 12000 samples/s audio required by wsprd)<br>
  </div>
- vtwrite (to record on the hard drive the raw audio)<br>
  <br>
  </div>
other programs are running here, but i think they are not necessary for
wspr mode:</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
- gpsd  for getting the precise time from my Jupiter GPS connected at 
COM1 (1pps and binary protocol);<br>
  </div>
- ntpd (configured only for the gpsd daemon not for other ntp servers)<br>
  <div>- vttime - for the audio calibration and time-stamping</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>Other routines are running on same Ubuntu PC for my auto-EbNaut
decoder and for sending audio stream to another Windows's pc where is
running SL and DF6NM's opds,..but this is another story.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>I'm at disposal for any helps on the configuration of this setup.</div>
  <div> <br>
  </div>
  <div>73 all, Domenico / IZ7SLZ</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>  <br>
  </div>
  </div>
  <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
  <div class="gmail_quote">On 26 October 2017 at 17:48, N1BUG <span
 dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul@n1bug.com"
 target="_blank">paul@n1bug.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
 style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Hello
Chris,<br>
    <br>
It seems WSPR-X is "conditionally stable". We had a fair bit of
discussion about it on this side of the pond last winter. It works for
some, but for others it doesn't. For me it stops doing anything after a
few minutes and just idly sits there. I am not alone. There are others
with the same issue and some for whom the program silently self
terminates at seemingly random intervals. In my case it's on Windows 10
64 bit. I suppose there are too few of us interested in WSPR-15 to
carry any weight with the developers. :-(<br>
    <br>
I run into the shack every few minutes in my evenings to see if I've
heard 2E0ILY yet! Eventually I go to sleep but the first thing I do in
the morning is check to see if I've heard 2E0ILY overnight! (or anyone
else across the pond)<br>
    <br>
The new tower is complete now. I feel the need to resurrect or replace
the missing 80/40/30 meter antennas before I build the LF/MF
transmitting antenna, but I am getting closer. I regret that my power
will probably be too low to be heard on your side. The only good thing
about it is I probably won't be setting many things alight. :-D<br>
    <br>
73,<br>
Paul N1BUG WI2XTC<br>
    <br>
    <br>
On 10/26/2017 06:42 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:<br>
    <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
 style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hello Paul,<br>
      <br>
I am surprised you have had issues with WSPR-X and WSPR15 I often<br>
forget I have it running in tandem with WSPR2 on WSJT-X and it is<br>
still sound and solid after a few days. PC is Windows 7 pro 64 bit.<br>
But it was also fine on Windows XP which I still run on another PC and<br>
on a laptop. The developers were very none receptive to adding WSPR15<br>
to WSJT-X :( I keep trying to get over to Maine most nights, but<br>
conditions  or  Lady Luck have not obliged so far. There don't seem to<br>
be  THAT  many  more  US stations on LF after the licence change, I was<br>
expecting  far  more  to  be  honest.  Good  luck  Paul, don't let Mr.<br>
Beveredge down :)<br>
      <br>
      <br>
Thursday, October 26, 2017, 11:23:31 AM, you wrote:<br>
      <br>
      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
 style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I wish it were possible to have more WSPR-15 activity on LF. It<br>
seems like a very promising mode and would be much more interesting<br>
to me than Op32. Unfortunately for many of us the old WSPR-X<br>
software needed to decode it is too unstable to run unattended.<br>
Unless there are MANY requests to the developers that WSPR-15 be<br>
included in the stable WSJT-X software, I am afraid we have seen the<br>
death of this sub-mode. If I could have a stable WSPR-15 decoder I<br>
would definitely monitor that mode alongside WSPR-2.<br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
 style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I'm struggling with my U3S assembly. All went well until I got to<br>
the coils in the LF and MF low pass filters. Those are giving me<br>
fits. The supplied wire came with many pre-installed sharp kinks,<br>
plus I seem to have no skill whatsoever at this "scramble winding"<br>
to get the required turns on the cores. I'm waiting now for a new<br>
spool of wire to arrive before I try again. I've thought about<br>
substituting a different core to allow a single layer winding. A<br>
FT-37-61 would be lovely with 31 turns on LF. However I fear the Q<br>
would be too low and losses high. Best to stick with what is proven,<br>
if I can only learn to wind the devils!<br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
 style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I have the GPS with my U3S and also the OCXO (which I plan to<br>
assemble later, after getting everything working with the standard<br>
synthesizer).<br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
 style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
73,<br>
Paul N1BUG<br>
      </blockquote>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </blockquote>
  </div>
  <br>
  </div>
</blockquote>
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